VaM2 better hurry up. Others are chasing your tail

[Toonen1988]

Me personally, I don't really compare VaM with other adult games. Simply because I see VaM more as a tool. I would like to compare VaM with DAZ3D in some ways.

Slaves of Romes and other adult games are more focused on 'gameplay' instead of creating your own scene's, own content, own assets etc. Those games might be a step ahead with 'accessibility' for the majority but they offer less possibilities in terms of content. VaM might feel limited, but it has huge potential. VaM team is rather small, but the software itself offers a lot of possibilities.

Slaves of Rome is more lineair in structure, more accesible but less freedom in terms of content. And it's also build with Unreal Engine, which offers already a lot of 'out of the box' scripts, coding, gameplay mechanics and many other things. VaM in the other hand is based on Unity Engine, and that's why I think that VaM can also offer the same content as any other adult game on the market.

I think if they manage to push VaM even further, we can even build 'bigger' scene's with even more gameplay mechanics, just like any other game. It would also be great if we had the option to convert a scene in VaM to a seperate stand alone .exe file. So, you offer something for people who just want to play the scene's and nothing else (more accesible) and for people who want to do more (using VaM 1 or 2).

True, and with new tools from nVidia (have you guys seen some OmniVerse Sessions at GTC?!) in conjunction with Unreal engine where you can literally speak to AI-driven characters (and creating them is just few clicks) and they answer with realistic expressions - VaM2 will have some hard time...

Yes, I also seen the trailer. I don't know if I should be impressed or disappointed. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice technology, but I found the assets the AI created rather atrocious. This could be also done a few years ago, but it's a good start. The begin is here, we will see how this will develop over the next few years. I also heard rumors that GTA VI also have some sort of 'deep learning' AI systems in place. To make the world more alive and diverse. So, you never meet the same pedestrians and they all have different behaviour. Also traffic should be different and more diverse. But it's all a rumor, so I don't take it to serious. In the next few years, we are going to see way more things like this.

 

[Henriyk]

I don't want to be disrespectful to other people's enthusiasm for other games. BUT, Slave of Rome is a mediocre game at best, with poor controls and lots of glitches and bugs. The graphics are not worth licking VAM's toes. again sorry but that game is a dead sailer.

 

[MoreForMe]

Me personally, I don't really compare VaM with other adult games. Simply because I see VaM more as a tool. I would like to compare VaM with DAZ3D in some ways.

Depends on what people looking for in VaM and other games. I personally use VaM more like a sandbox/ character editor - pretty much like interactive DAZ. But there's plenty of people who are just typical content consumers interested mostly in mocaps and scenes with very limited interactivity (just look at download numbers on them) who are not interested in creating at all. These people will likely move to other - better performing games with a plot. I don't find Slaves of Rome particularily interesting (I agree with Henriyk here), it's not that well made, but there are interesting projects out there - Wild Life for example (https://www.patreon.com/adeptussteve) is AMAZING when it comes to animations and graphics (characters are not photorealistic - more like in Fortnite style, but they don't aim at that) and I had some fun with the Last Barbarian too (it's more like Skyrim with Lovers Lab mods) because it has some interesting plot and quests.

 

[Toonen1988]

Depends on what people looking for in VaM and other games. I personally use VaM more like a sandbox/ character editor - pretty much like interactive DAZ. But there's plenty of people who are just typical content consumers interested mostly in mocaps and scenes with very limited interactivity (just look at download numbers on them) who are not interested in creating at all. These people will likely move to other - better performing games with a plot. I don't find Slaves of Rome particularily interesting (I agree with Henriyk here), it's not that well made, but there are interesting projects out there - Wild Life for example (https://www.patreon.com/adeptussteve) is AMAZING when it comes to animations and graphics (characters are not photorealistic - more like in Fortnite style, but they don't aim at that) and I had some fun with the Last Barbarian too (it's more like Skyrim with Lovers Lab mods) because it has some interesting plot and quests.

That's correct, my comment was also more from my perspective. The thing is, Slaves of Rome is just content limited while VaM is almost unlimited. It depends on the VaM creators.

It would be great to have a way to extract your 'scene' in to a stand-alone .exe file. So, those typical content consumers doesn't have to download the whole VaM 2.x software if they aren't interested in it. But rather have a 'light' version or separate .exe file where they just can load the scene's.

But yeah, the performance is a massive flaw in VaM. Especially a bigger environment, lighting, characters and to many objects and scripts.

I heard about the Last Barbarian, but never tried or watched it. Wild Life is major no-go for me.

 

[MoreForMe]

That's correct, my comment was also more from my perspective. The thing is, Slaves of Rome is just content limited while VaM is almost unlimited. It depends on the VaM creators.

It would be great to have a way to extract your 'scene' in to a stand-alone .exe file. So, those typical content consumers doesn't have to download the whole VaM 2.x software if they aren't interested in it. But rather have a 'light' version or separate .exe file where they just can load the scene's.

But yeah, the performance is a massive flaw in VaM. Especially a bigger environment, lighting, characters and to many objects and scripts.

I heard about the Last Barbarian, but never tried or watched it. Wild Life is major no-go for me.

I recently played a demos for Carnal Instinct, Silicon Lust (great and funny stuff) and My Lust Wish - both are content limited, but have an actual storyline, great graphics (Silicon Lust better than the My Lust Wish) and animations. The point is - with this amount of adult oriented games in the making - it will be hard for VaM (and it's content creators) to compete with them. Hopefully VaM2 brings more streamlined workflow and out of the box combine some stuff which right now can only by added through performance-degrading plugins (timeline, gaze, micromovements for the characters, better breast physics and so on). There are also engine stability issues, long loading times and more.

As for the Wild Life - I would need to see the finished product - furries are definitely not my thing, but I liked the overal quality of what I've saw.

 

[Toonen1988]

I recently played a demos for Carnal Instinct, Silicon Lust (great and funny stuff) and My Lust Wish - both are content limited, but have an actual storyline, great graphics (Silicon Lust better than the My Lust Wish) and animations. The point is - with this amount of adult oriented games in the making - it will be hard for VaM (and it's content creators) to compete with them. Hopefully VaM2 brings more streamlined workflow and out of the box combine some stuff which right now can only by added through performance-degrading plugins (timeline, gaze, micromovements for the characters, better breast physics and so on). There are also engine stability issues, long loading times and more.

As for the Wild Life - I would need to see the finished product - furries are definitely not my thing, but I liked the overal quality of what I've saw.

Indeed those games are limited in content, but they are user friendly. Just run the .exe file and press start game.

VaM is more populair among people who have certain computer/software knowledge and like to create their own stuff. And since more people go for user friendly games, they will prefer those games over VaM.

So yeah, I hope they can make VaM 2.x more user friendly and still have the same possibilites as VaM 1.x.

 

[Vam_SlesaR]

I would like to believe that in VAM 2 it will be done as in the games from Illusion - the plot part and separately the "studio". but this will not happen, alas..

 

[epi.noah]

VaM has so much content that so many have created. You put them all together, it looks at you in the eye and says "I am the new VaM before 2.0 now".

The plugin support, the customizability, the sandbox approach. VaM is basically Minecraft for adults.

Make one free plugin that captures the user experience and the videos that people share would say "I am Meta now".

 

[Kosmosx]

SPQR VAMx is nothing new it's a top in interface for VAM the successor of a combination try called Easy Mate but VAMX combines plugins with it's own logic core some plugins where specificaly readopted for it as collaboration work by from VAMX commissioned plugin developers.

But overall it is still the same VAM Unity Core with all its Architectural 4 Core limited MT Problems so overall VAMX even creates slightly more overhead ontop.
The way the VAMX interface is integrated is not very adaptable friendly compared to already existing other solutions wich you can modular put together as well as it is deeply integrated with it's own plugin logic core that without being able to reverse its logic makes it impossible to efficiently adapt to your own needs.

For someone who knows what he is doing it's just a bunch of useless overhead ontop of VAM.

And not everyone will like it's UI Design and Interaction logic Decisions also in terms of Task Execution efficiency and very limited customization options and save slots which you often reach only by clicking a million times around on it's limited UI space

For me Personaly it's one of the most shitiest limited UIX Designs i ever saw behind some useless completely weird put together plugin interaction core.

 

[Kosmosx]

Nobody with deep low level knowledge will invest this time trying to fix the problems of this old Unity core that are so deep low level, you can still push out a bit of it but overall especially for newer Hardware Generations it will be highly inefficient the more complex your Scene gets.

PS: Slaves of Rome is another Unreal Joke by someone who has no idea what he is doing at all

VR Hot looks like another Asian who thinks he is up to it and indeed it looks not bad at all but i see nothing custom in it yet except Epics and Tencents work it's pretty much in the same ball park as Naughty Sandbox.

VAM overall is a nice playground for ideas that you later on implement in more efficient frameworks, you can really fast prototype things out in it on a higher level.
And in a space of very severe restrictions compared to other higher efficient engines for Humanoid Simulations it forces you to think a lot about your Performance and Resource balance and needs your whole fantasy to come up with something which can standup vs higher efficient Engines and their work and years of Research.

But in reality without Zygotes work and Research VAM would be nothing special

 

[Kosmosx]

Ahh thank you remembering me of Catalog it was indeed interesting never tried it i guess it will be partly broken by now

Mostly JayJaywon is dominating this space now, with his mostly proprietary interface work

Im still dreaming of something similar for VAM

He is a Asian Moder i deeply respect though he is a Ghost his inspector implementation work never surfaced at all
He got full control of the entire Post Stack and more, his UI work is pure beauty.

Ghosts are the best they know they show though they dont have to share or sell you anything.

But of course VAM complexity is 1 step higher with 2 worlds to support and find solutions for

They where a lot of other moders and lot of them let thmeselve be payed but none of them reached this implementation beauty

And they make you understand if you take money for anything less than this you failed.

 

[Kosmosx]

It's not only the UI it's the entire knowledge of Unity behind it

practically only someone with Source XS can have this or a master reverse enginer with knowledge in all fields of the rendering pipeline

My guess he works for Illusion and what we actually saw was the in progress evolvement of their core here

I first suspected it is Nyacho he also visited VAM shortly pushed out his awesome morph work and then vanished

 

[Kosmosx]

I set my goal to obsolete most patreons with full featured free solutions this is what i working on behind curtains.
Also working on low level ways to get more performance out of this old unity core and bypass some of it's lower level threading restrictions on top of DX11
though impossible to improve the Morph Efficiency it is very restricted a lot heavier then Unreal even in older states pre 4.22 and it makes up a lot that will be impossible to reach like VAM 2.0 with it's way improved Unity Core and much better (stable) Skinning.

Currently im looking very closely at some of EPIs results and mix and match them with some of mine and others

Epis Light Results mixing some properties, testing some visual material results inside RENVRs basework 3

1 of RENVRS best base works SIMONE if not the "best" of all

hub.virtamate.com

Much better to see EPIS results outside of Alter3gos kiddy porn shit and style

RenVR one of the few who has dignity in his soul. most of the rest put them in the trash bin

most of them are to dumb and have never seen a human female you could guess those who are blindly copying them from some photos are the dumbest in existance.


But the worst this whole Asian flood of 80% unrealistic dolls you need ultra precision for Asians or you only create 15 year olds and paired in a style of Geisha K-pop or other Bleached/Surgered by DR Pain crazyness it becomes a pure perceptional age catastrophy.

So few of those creators have real unedited RAW CASTING Quality Data of those Asian Females before their whole makeup changes even.

 

[epi.noah]

A physics engine update is desperately needed. It's a waste that it won't happen.

• I take the environment out, it speeds things out.

Okay, I can live with just the character. I can offer the room as an option, let people switch it on and even switch to a more demanding one with the click of a button if they have a better hardware than mine.

• I take the simulation requiring hair and clothing out, it speeds things out.

Okay, I can live with just no-sim wearing character. I can offer different clothing sets with the click of a button. I can offer different hair options for different levels of performance/quality with the click of a button.

• I take the 3-point, 4-point lights out, get similar or subjectively better quality with spot lights, and if my GPU is the bottleneck, it speeds things out.

Okay, I can design something that looks great with just the character and spot lights. I can offer different lighting rigs with the click of a button.

BUT these are just incremental gains.

• I turn the soft physics and additional colliders off and the thing flies.

I get 2-4x performance gains.

But some scenes don't work without those. Some dancing scenes (even some high quality mocap) can but not everything.

Okay, so I can't improve that. I either,
• Forget about good quality & high performance in VR.
• Stick to dance scenes with soft physics and additional colliders off.
• Beg for an updated physics engine.

It's a shame that all this content made for the current VaM is being held back by the dated physics engine. It could all be remixed and brought to a much higher quality until VaM 2.0 gets here, and people can provide simple tools , or alternatives, and guides for that purpose. It would be the best VR content out there. But the physics engine is the bottleneck. And it's not the wait that bugs me, VaM 2.0 is not supposed to be compatible with all this content. It will all just go to waste.

Memory management is also problematic but I can understand that one. It's hard to design something that works for both creators and final users. Creators need you to retain things in the memory and let them cycle seamlessly, final users need you to drop what won't be needed next to free up memory for run time performance. It would be better if loading a scene cleared things out first, and merge leading scenes would clear out what is overwritten but at least I can fix that problem with more RAM. The physics thing is a bummer.

You can go the brute force approach and get the fastest CPU to get better physics performance. The engine doesn't even fully use it because it's bottlenecked by single thread performance.

I understand that the team chooses to work on 2.0. I just wish it was possible for someone to revamp the physics engine for better performance.

If I had three wishes, it would be
• Physics engine update,
• DLSS and RT support in VR.
• Better memory management,
And I'd be happy with just the physics engine update for VaM 1.x, the rest for VaM2.x.

If I was allowed to dream bigger,
• I'd let the user capture their experience and share it, and
• I'd offer intuitive and immersive controls for final users in VR as default.
• I'd rebrand by changing the name from something that sounds like "for lonely sad creeps" to "create your dreams".

 

[epi.noah]

It's fine for me But I can see people shying away from sharing their experience with their friends with the current name. If the sharing thing was possible, and the image was improved, it would go 100x viral.

If the PR was was less about the sex scenes, more about the dancing scenes etc. and it had a name that reflected it, you'd be more likely to say "check this out man, I was in VR and walking around this dancing person, checking them out as if I was there". That's more interesting that "our crappy avatars will get legs someday".

The sex stuff would find its way to people on reddit anyway and VaM would still be one of the first things people find when they Google "Adult VR game". No need to give that to the "press" ready to make a fluff piece titled "check out these losers".

It's tool to create and share unique experiences but the name makes it sound like it's less than that. It's an adult sandbox, could be "Minecraft for adults", but sounds like "Fleshlight without the feeling of touch".

Oh well. What I really care about is the physics part.

-Why is an update needed? Wouldn't old scenes be designed to work with VaM's physics engine anyway?
-Not in VR at high speeds. If it wasn't for the physics, old scenes that barely worked on a flat screen a few years ago could all be brought to VR. Not just stuff that's on the hub but stuff that didn't even make the cut because it wasn't ready at the time. GPU performance advanced immensely. CPU single thread performance hasn't kept up. You remix the scene, optimize it, the graphics work but the physics performance is still the bottleneck.

This would all be unnecessary if VaM2.0 was just around the corner, with plugin support and backwards compatibility. But it isn't (and to my understanding won't be backwards compatible).

 

[Kosmosx]

"but once vamx buys virtamate your wish might come true "

good joke without VAM VAMX wouldn't even exist

and who knows what geesp0t would do also its not entirely his work alone he was just clever gathering devs around that wanted to make a bit of money for their Study pockets

And not few of those creators do these colab things to push themselves now you want to tell me this is not a job for them

a lot of people try to commercialize themselves over VAM and surely a lot of Covid Job survivors are under those especialy over time it got more of them, especially many of those Asians.

Though it becomes more and more of those Asian Patreons sooner or later it will be oversaturated and then the real fights will begin,

Patreon just for "recognition" i have to lough heavily by the intention especially of many who beg around but overall it is sad and shows many of those economical situation.

Many of those Patreons lie to no end and they have no problems to even watch themselves in the mirror after they wake up.

And you wondering why im mad ?

And then we have all those Asian competition growing up vs VAM tough most of them will fail.

I wonder how much more Chinese copycats we gonna see.

Though you also can see now how the suppressed Chinese are exploding currently

Sooner or later they will be the biggest Digital Porn Creators

 

[Kosmosx]

This is already alone great for AVG joes to enjoy VAM

Scenes - 50 animated sex loops

sxs4 submitted a new resource: 50 animated sex loops - animations Made 50 animation loops all in one scene,most of them used from other creator poses.Thanks to them! Makes my work faster;) Enjoy=p Read more about this resource...

hub.virtamate.com

Vamasutra with Basic animations high performance capable

all kind of variations can be created with it forcing timeline in time to give up nodes control where needed for realtime reaction changes

combining ideas from catalog with this could yield masterful results in in animation realtime puppeteerring

we can get entire realtime control any time of Mocaps and remixing them any way we want in application

Soon even Adobe has to fear VAM


VAM could become the most powerful Content Creation and Transfer tool for other Pipelines

i guess rather Unity itself gets more and more interested in it's core ideas they would have the power to bring VAM into a complete thing of it's own, especialy when WETA DIGITAL works directly on it's base
Integrating VAM into Unity or better melting both at the core together is not only the PATH for Humanoid Simulation Perfection


Throwing out DAZ Entirely and taking on WETAS work

Tough im not sure but i think WETA itself has no Generic Morph Model they are fully dependent on 3D/4D Scans, i think they only have some good working Horse base a stable hair simulation and some rather good working path tracer but that was it.
Overall they aren't so advanced as Sony Imageworks or Disney Animation but they where a cheap buy for Unity
And i think WETA not yet tried to bring back a very well known by it's Fans of different Generations Dead Human with low clone base data in a entire Movie most advanced they presented was a living full data Will Smith tough they synchronized it on his younger version rather efficiently

Which neither EPIC/TENCENT have yet


@Epi
Your ideas are nice but this moving light idea is always about to fail you don't want to have shadows all the time moving around, it is freaking disturbing we aren't used to it perceptually in this heaviness and it brings everything to fall apart in motion fast.

Replacing Epis Lighting

hub.virtamate.com

Replacing Epis Lighting 2

hub.virtamate.com

Replacing Epis Lighting 3

hub.virtamate.com

Replacing Epis Lighting 4

hub.virtamate.com

 

[epi.noah]

@Epi
Your ideas are nice but this moving light idea is always about to fail you don't want to have shadows all the time moving around, it is freaking disturbing we aren't used to it perceptually in this heaviness and it brings everything to fall apart in motion fast.

Replacing Epis Lighting

hub.virtamate.com

Replacing Epis Lighting 2

hub.virtamate.com

Replacing Epis Lighting 3

hub.virtamate.com

Replacing Epis Lighting 4

hub.virtamate.com

I have two solutions:
1. Using lights fixed in place (like 4 spots wide) so that moving shadows etc. do not bug you. You pair with with a nice environment for high quality.
2. Using these lights following the person if you're ditching the environment etc for high performance on lower end systems (and thus you won't have problems with shadows.
One or the other, depending on your needs.

And I can't take credit for the moving light stuff, it's been done before me. I just adopted my fixed place lights to that approach so that people who use these can replace them with mine.

Like these ones lately:

Scenes - Sexy Kpop Dances - 72 songs

NOTICE: There might be an issue with downloading PluginIdea.HPVL.6 dependency from in-game hub. If you see errors, please download it manually from the dependencies tab. and place in VaM/AddonPackages folder Dance animations for sexy Kpop...

hub.virtamate.com

Free Idle Mocap for Creators - Scenes -

You may use this resource to make videos of any kind - for free or for paid releases provided credit is given somewhere in the video. The mocap should not be included in any released scenes - free or paid. Includes hand and finger tracking...

hub.virtamate.com

So basically,
1. You open a scene like these, you wanna try different lights, you can replace the existing rig with one of mine (chest, head, abdomen...)
2. You open a scene that has fixed lights, you wanna try different lights, you can replace the existing rig with one of mine.

 

[Kosmosx]

im doing this but i also have my own rigs that are optimized for maximum performance distance relation and i counter test a lot currently with my favorite results.
i have a very large database by now of results some you can watch here also in motion results and performance relation

Kosmosx Space's Porn Gifs | RedGIFs

Find out more about Kosmosx Space and explore their 569 porn GIFs and images. Browse the millions of other porn GIFs and images free on RedGIFs

www.redgifs.com

though i specifically optimize first for my own model results which is a small short babyface

she has no real human counterpart one goal is semi efficient skin transformation (efficient realtime tanning simulation)

so very fine spectrum changes without to much detail loss especially on the albedo layer

i also think many of those Kpop girls are useless we can simulate it

Thats where Kporn Kelly grows up on

Yoga Kelly Ready for Action 6

hub.virtamate.com

Kporn Kelly 4

The Porn Doughtier of Kiss has arrived

hub.virtamate.com

Kelly wants to become a Kporn Star 8

hub.virtamate.com

Yes it is all the same base you see 1 base transforming virtualy entirely in light space alone

Default Scene Rig

hub.virtamate.com

Wide Scale Low Shadow count

hub.virtamate.com

Wide Scale High Shadow Count

hub.virtamate.com

 

[epi.noah]

i've played lots of unique vr experiences, demos and whatnots over the years. i don't remember one from vam tbh. sfw scene i mean that you could say has replay value and you might load vam just for that

The girls say: Everything has replay value if you torch your memory

(don't listen to them, they're bad kitties)

Yeah, "create your dreams" would be pushing it because it still has a steep learning curve for new users. But something like "chase your dreams" could work. That's what people are doing by either putting things together themselves or downloading the content that speaks to them.

Also, it's easier to put together something with replay value today. We didn't have the GPUs that it takes to render great looking experiences, all the plugins, tools and assets needed to polish them, nor the equipment to capture the motion for them. But lately, it seems like we got there. We even have something like the Quest Pro and the AR passthrough approach to bring them into our rooms.

All that's holding it back is the physics performance.

But of course every shiny new thing like DLSS requires a newer version of Unity. So while I'm salivating over possible 2-3x physics performance improvements that a 1.x could have, the devs might be thinking "try 4-9x with Physx5.1 and DLSS3".

My only problem with that is the time a fully functional VaM 2.0 will take to get here. A 1.x with a physics engine update (if that's even possible) would tie us over while we wait. Admittedly, I don't know how hard that would be to build and it wouldn't be worth it if it takes too long.

 

[epi.noah]

I have two solutions:
1. Using lights fixed in place (like 4 spots wide) so that moving shadows etc. do not bug you. You pair with with a nice environment for high quality.
2. Using these lights following the person if you're ditching the environment etc for high performance on lower end systems (and thus you won't have problems with shadows.
One or the other, depending on your needs.

And I can't take credit for the moving light stuff, it's been done before me. I just adopted my fixed place lights to that approach so that people who use these can replace them with mine.

Like these ones lately:

Scenes - Sexy Kpop Dances - 72 songs

NOTICE: There might be an issue with downloading PluginIdea.HPVL.6 dependency from in-game hub. If you see errors, please download it manually from the dependencies tab. and place in VaM/AddonPackages folder Dance animations for sexy Kpop...

hub.virtamate.com

Free Idle Mocap for Creators - Scenes -

You may use this resource to make videos of any kind - for free or for paid releases provided credit is given somewhere in the video. The mocap should not be included in any released scenes - free or paid. Includes hand and finger tracking...

hub.virtamate.com

So basically,
1. You open a scene like these, you wanna try different lights, you can replace the existing rig with one of mine (chest, head, abdomen...)
2. You open a scene that has fixed lights, you wanna try different lights, you can replace the existing rig with one of mine.

Another way of looking at this:
1. Lights fixed in place if the room asset isn't self lit (dark before you add any light)

TheOffice

Thinking about adding more rooms in a "epiSmallRooms" package. wip. No RT, no post-processing. Exactly as in VR.

hub.virtamate.com

(You may need to use Vamifier on the asset to tweak it)

2. Lights following the person if the room asset is self lit (bright without even adding a light)

cozy

Thinking about adding more rooms in a "epiSmallRooms" package. wip. No RT, no post-processing. Exactly as in VR.

hub.virtamate.com

(might have to play with the exposure slider to better match the room)

 

[Kosmosx]

You did better on the new light context

 

[Kosmosx]

I love you EPI