I'm officially a "creator". Now what?

[GordonShock]

After a couple of months of lurking, feeling the ecosystem, and learning more and more about Vam, I just became a creator-level supporter on Patreon. The question now is, what the fuck should I create?

Vam is one gigantic onion, and during my tests in the last couple of months, when I thought I had one aspect of it "figured out", then I'd discover a plugin, or play a scene that seemed to nullify the knowledge I'd gain and send me back to square one. That makes for an experience that's both thrilling and frustrating, as the learning curve's angle never seems to flatten in the least.

I'm fine with continuing to peel the layers, and learning as I go along; I always play around with scenes, swapping A,B,C with X,Y,Z, and see what works, and what doesn't. I certainly learn quite a bit by reverse-engineering creator's work, and I'm more than willing to dump a shit ton amount of time in Vam over the next months to learn as much as possible, but to what end? What's my end goal?

I am a filmmaker, so storytelling is the aspect that attracts me the most. I see the work of someone like @AshAuryn, and I think to myself, yes, that's the next level because personality can crank the authenticity factor by leaps, and that certainly helps storytelling. But what good would it do to me to learn all about pose/expression, when I can't even make a character walk a straight line using Timeline?

Therefore, what would be the best use of my time in the coming months, which aspect of Vam should I learn asap, and leave the rest for later?

Appreciate your indulgence, and looking forward to contributing to the community with awesome stuff way down the road. ✌

 

[atani]

You should do things that you want to see and enjoy, simple as that.
Don't be fooled by perceptions like "I can't even make a character walk a straight line using Timeline" is a trivial matter. This is actually a very difficult animation to do well if not as a mocap. A lot of other things that look hard are simple and quick to do, while others that look easy are the opposite. As you start making your stuff you'll quickly start to realize what parts take a long time to get right, and what is easy or fast to do. This is without a doubt one of the most important gains you can have for any subject.

Set small challenges to get an idea on how much work something requires, with some larger end goal in sight. As you know well, animations are just one part of Storytelling, sometimes not even the most important part, so do explore beyond Timeline.

 

[MacGruber]

For story telling you may want to look into plugins that support you with that. LogicBricks (especially StateMachine and SequenceMachine bricks) as well as VaMStory are certainly worth a look.

Plugins - LogicBricks

Overview LogicBricks is a collection of now 34 reusable logic plugins to quickly build simple logic without coding. These go from a simple Relay that just groups triggers via Counter and Blend to more complex bricks for RandomChoice and a very...

hub.virtamate.com

Plugins - VAMStory

⚠ PLEASE: If you like this asset, consider liking and reviewing it for the community Read the description, read the ingame help if you have any trouble. I will not answer private messages asking questions about things that are actually explained...

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For bringing characters to live, you would want to look into layered animations. Facial expressions are just a part of that. Going with layered approach, and trusting the random interactions between the layers, is a lot easier than trying to animate everything by hand in Timeline. You get to 80-90% of the quality in 10% the time. Quoting myself from another thread:

In other of importance:

1. Eye blink (=> e.g. VaM build-in "Auto Blink")
2. Breathing (=> e.g. Life plugin)
   • Idle animation of chest, stomach, nose, mouth, lips
   • Matching breathing sounds in sync with animation
3. Micro head movement (=> e.g. Gaze plugin, part of Life)
4. Micro eye movement (=> Glance plugin)
   • I think you need to switch the video below to "HD" to see it
5. Shifting facial expressions (=> e.g. VaM build-in "Auto Expressions")
6. Occasionally shifting marco focus, looking at different things in the world
   • (=> IdlePoser or Timeline plugins controlling settings of Gaze/Glance)
7. Macro hand movement (=> IdlePoser or Timeline plugins)
8. Marco body movement (=> IdlePoser or Timeline plugins)
9. (Having other animated things in your scene besides characters also helps.....e.g. those swinging chains)

All of those just play mostly independently of each other with random timings....so you have some slight controlled chaos...aka "Life".
Example with just Life, Gaze, Glance and 5 instances of IdlePoser (eye target, marco body, left hand, right hand, fingers over the remote):

Also worth investigating is whether you want your story to be linear like a movie or if you want interaction by the player. For example you could have a multiple choice dialog, where different choice lead to a different part of the story. "Choices" could be more than just pressing buttons with answering options, it could be also the lack of a response, looking at something or touching someone/something.

Scenes - CyberNight

Separate demo scene showing off new features that came with LogicBricks 7, which help with building scenes with branching multiple-choice dialogs. Please excuse the poor dialog, I'm a coder, not a Hollywood writer. Anyway, you got a couple of...

hub.virtamate.com

Another things that can be done in VaM is to have characters make random choices. When you have a linear scene its fun to watch maybe once or twice. But after that you know exactly what's gonna happen. But if randomness is part of the scene, it feels way more life like as you won't exactly know what will happen next. Basically randomness at marcro animation level. In case of this example here it is an controling logic layer (StateMachine brick) that is randomly forcing the lower animation layers to go in a specific sets of states (and waiting for those states to be reached to avoid collisions):

Scenes - DoubleTrouble

You signed up for a sperm donation, but you did not read the fine-print. Now you are in a dungeon, restrained to a chair and two beautiful nurses just keep milking you...for hours? The power of random combinations...not knowing what will happen...

hub.virtamate.com

 

[GordonShock]

Thank fellas, appreciate that.

@atani There are many things that pique my interest, and the chief among them is creating jaw-dropping lookalikes. To that effect, I am learning about facial characteristics, ratios, muscles, and whatnot. I'm not using Facegen as I can't afford it, and truth be told I'm not all that sold on it as I find the results to be underwhelming most of the time. Any advice in that regard?

@MacGruber Thank you for all this info. I've already installed all your plugins in the past couple of months and looked around them a bit, but feel like I'm not ready yet. Though "double trouble" sounds pretty cool, I will check it out this week, and peek under the hood to see how the randomness works. Speaking of which, the layered approach which you describe became clear to me a couple of weeks back that it's the way to go, not to undermine your suggestion...maybe I'm less green than I think

I've also dabbled quite a bit with VamStory, and created a resource that's almost ready to go but ran into a couple of snags that are yet to be answered, which kinda sucks, but I don't feel like pestering folks for answers...

A question for both of you and others that may want to pitch in:

What's the future of Vam, in terms of storytelling, action, and interactivity? If I look at the older scenes, most of them were created with animation patterns/cycle forces, while these days it's mostly Timeline-based, and/or Mocap. Is that the natural evolution that you saw as well, or are both methods still very much valid, depending on what one wants to achieve?

 

[AshAuryn]

FWIW, I hadn't even explored timeline or scene creation until recently. @Acid Bubbles has excellent wiki/guides. In order to get the hang of things I always recommend starting simple and following the guides.

Guides - Timeline 3 Video Tutorials (Beginner)

🎉 Do you like Timeline? Support me on Patreon and get early access to new features: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39197180 💬 Need help creation animations or want to share your work of art? Join us on Discord! https://discord.gg/VtUpPkb Those...

hub.virtamate.com

Guides - Timeline 6 Wiki

🎉 Do you like Timeline? Support me on Patreon and get early access to new features: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39197180 💬 Need help creation animations or want to share your work of art? Join us on Discord! https://discord.gg/VtUpPkb This is...

hub.virtamate.com

@MacGruber 's plugins are, as the name implies, essential. Logic Bricks opens a world of possibilities. Again, whenever possible, take the time to review guides, videos, and wikis.

I haven't played with VamStory yet, but I did receive some feedback about a scene I created that took me several hours and was shown that it would have taken minutes with VamStory.

Lastly, because it is a hot topic lately, be sure to follow best practices involving noncommercial licensed content if you plan to charge money for your work. The best method is to create a separate installation of VaM that includes as much hub-hosted CC BY content as you can possibly collect, and keep that installation clean of any NC content.

In any case, sounds like you are off to a good start! Good luck!

 

[atani]

I cannot advise on anything to make good looks as it's something I don't have much experience.

The future of VaM is on what people make of it. As a sandbox, the option to be able to do things in different ways is part of its appeal, so I can expect people will use whatever method they prefer or can that allows them to reach their goal.
The prevalence of Timeline nowadays comes from it being a really flexible tool, but that does not mean it will stop the use of other forms of animation like animation patterns/cycle forces. These will continue to have its place, be it with creators that are used to them, or for simpler parts of a scene where Timeline would be overkill or not as effective. The options for different tools can be a source of confusion and difficulty in adapting scenes to other scenarios, but also a welcomed option to a variety of people with different skills, experience and goals.

 

[SlimerJSpud]

You can still do a lot without investing a ton of time posing and tuning for Timeline or doing Mocap. Take a look at the Slow Blow demo. This gets a lot of randomness using the float param randomizer. I use physics links to make people's parts thrash about based on the other atom's simple motion. My couch sex scene has been surprisingly popular doing that. Triggers can turn plugins on and off as a scene progresses.

 

[Jocks3D]

I've been on the Creator level for quite sometime and although I have been creating my own looks and revising scenes made by others for my personal use, I don't think I've ever clicked on that big Creator box on the right side of my screen when I start VaM. So I guess I share the same question as @GordonShock but maybe a little more specific... are there instructions or an explanation about how we're supposed to use that "Creator" entrance to VaM? Like I said, not using it has not appeared to slow me down, but maybe I'm missing something that would make my creating even easier?

 

[GordonShock]

The options for different tools can be a source of confusion and difficulty in adapting scenes to other scenarios...

Yes indeed.

I am not only new to Vam, but so to 3D character creation, modelling, animation, and VR itself!

So reverse-enginering introduced me to the concept of joint drives, for instance. As well, it slowly creates new connections in the brain, as for me, creating in Vam still feels really weird. It occurred to me that I need to understand a new paradigm of creation, one where the very act of creation becomes is only bound by sheer will!

This is a mind shift, which takes a toll, but I learn every day. I shall take a look at your scene creator asap, to see how you made it happen. I'm sure I'll learn quite a bit.

 

[Ziyi]

You have a multitude of options:

1. Make models
2. Make clothes
3. Make textures (using external apps then importing them over)
4. Make scenes
5. Make plugins
6. Make assets (using external apps then importing them over)

Pick one and only one. Focus on it and specialize. Enjoy what you're doing. If you don't, move on to next category.

One important tip - making a good looking, beautiful model (male or female) with a unique and "realistic" identity that makes it stand-out is extremely difficult and is entirely skill based. You either have it, or you don't. Not everyone is born with artist skills.

 

[VAMIC]

Don't feel bad. I been on here a year and a half and am just now starting to feel like I can make looks that satisfy me, but only from other people's clothing, textures, etc. Scenes with animations are a whole different animal and a lot of it is, as you say, about reverse engineering how others are using timeline or just relying on simple cycle force tricks. There are a lot of good templates and tutorials out there, but it just takes a lot of time. Personally I'm waiting until VAM 2.0 to get into scene creation and animation because I don't want the sunken cost of learning all this stuff just for it to possibly change substantially.

 

[SPQR]

Personally I'm waiting until VAM 2.0 to get into scene creation and animation because I don't want the sunken cost of learning all this stuff just for it to possibly change substantially.

I remember vamx saying to someone on steam that it's likely going to be something like 2025-2026

 

[atani]

Don't feel bad. I been on here a year and a half and am just now starting to feel like I can make looks that satisfy me, but only from other people's clothing, textures, etc. Scenes with animations are a whole different animal and a lot of it is, as you say, about reverse engineering how others are using timeline or just relying on simple cycle force tricks. There are a lot of good templates and tutorials out there, but it just takes a lot of time. Personally I'm waiting until VAM 2.0 to get into scene creation and animation because I don't want the sunken cost of learning all this stuff just for it to possibly change substantially.

I don't think you should delay learning how to animate for reasons it could be wasted with VAM 2. While it's expected for things to be different in VAM 2, they are not likely to be SO different that what one learned in VAM 1.X is wasted, by the contrary. What you learn now about keyframe animation, thinking of Timeline, the core concept knowledge is transferable to other keyframed animation tools.
Much of the work anyway is spent on planning, structure, and theme setting, not just in the use of specific tools.

 

[ThePersianBoy]

You have a multitude of options:

1. Make models
2. Make clothes
3. Make textures (using external apps then importing them over)
4. Make scenes
5. Make plugins
6. Make assets (using external apps then importing them over)

Pick one and only one. Focus on it and specialize. Enjoy what you're doing. If you don't, move on to next category.

One important tip - making a good looking, beautiful model (male or female) with a unique and "realistic" identity that makes it stand-out is extremely difficult and is entirely skill based. You either have it, or you don't. Not everyone is born with artist skills.

I agree - took me far too long to realize working in 3D character design requires the talents of a naturally gifted fine artist (someone who is able to convincingly draw a human figure). VaM is open to all, and we all, whatever our level of artistic ability (or lack thereof), find a way to get something out of it, but - damn - I'm envious of those gifted individuals with a real artistic talent for this stuff.

 

[VIMVAMVOOMcoom]

I agree - took me far too long to realize working in 3D character design requires the talents of a naturally gifted fine artist (someone who is able to convincingly draw a human figure). VaM is open to all, and we all, whatever our level of artistic ability (or lack thereof), find a way to get something out of it, but - damn - I'm envious of those gifted individuals with a real artistic talent for this stuff.

I wholeheartedly disagree, this kind of thinking will forever hold you back and prevent you from even attempting to begin fiddling around with the software. You do not need to be an expert in anatomy to make a good looking model in VAM. Someone will love a certain body figure while another will think it's sub par. The point here is to make what looks good/sexy to you and you only - and maybe someone else will find it appealing too.

 

[VAMIC]

I don't think you should delay learning how to animate for reasons it could be wasted with VAM 2. While it's expected for things to be different in VAM 2, they are not likely to be SO different that what one learned in VAM 1.X is wasted, by the contrary. What you learn now about keyframe animation, thinking of Timeline, the core concept knowledge is transferable to other keyframed animation tools.
Much of the work anyway is spent on planning, structure, and theme setting, not just in the use of specific tools.

The only reason I'm waiting is I don't like to lose access to the things I've created and if VAM 2 ends up not being compatible with scenes and looks from VAM 1, then they'll be lost forever. I have a little PTSD from many years using application software to make things, so I figure I'll wait, but you make some good points about at least taking some time to learn about keyframe.

 

[atani]

Even when the first VAM 2 release is made it will be a long time until you have feature parity or enough content to not care anymore about VAM 1.x. VaM 1 will work forever, you won't lose access to it when VAM 2 comes out and will super likely will continue to have new resources being made for a long time.
Also, it's likely the things you create for VaM 1.x may, a scene for example, may be easier to import or redo from a existing one than to make everything from scratch, and in the meantime you get to use it in VaM 1.x for as long as you want. The experience of making is also not wasted, like I wrote earlier.

 

[SlimerJSpud]

I agree there's no point waiting. I'd say get into Vam 1.x now, to use it, get used to how things in general work, and just enjoy the thing. It's a sandbox. Go play in the sandbox.

 

[SPQR]

here's the exact quote

since they were gifted the whole game to monetize on steam and vam1 resurrected just to make updates for them, I imagine they're in the know of what's going on... I got 2025 from it because we were almost in 2023 when that was posted, +2 years. And that sounded like an optimistic/hopeful date, "super far off", etc so likely longer