Plugins [Experimental] Alternative Futa

[VamTimbo]

Hadn't considered that. What's a good way to reach out to him?

Definitely discord. Or if you have a specific question you’d like me to ask - I can relay it to him.

 

[Piano]

Sorry I can't find any option to adjust mesh position, I don't have it in my morph, could you please tell me where to find this option?

 

[Stopper]

Sorry I can't find any option to adjust mesh position, I don't have it in my morph, could you please tell me where to find this option?

It's a known bug that occurs for some people that I haven't had a chance to fix.

 

[Stopper]

Alright, progress.

I'm still including both female and male genitalia, but the female gens are hidden and I've got the rest to mesh nicely.


There's no anus, though, and unfortunately I don't think that'll be easy to fix. I believe male models get theirs using their 2nd graft and I'm using it for the male gens. It's possible to clip the female gen's anus through using morphs, but there are blending issues.


The other option is to get further on the other approach that skips grafting the female gens altogether. I figured out the texture corruption, but it's got other issues.

Anyway, I'll clean this up and add it as an option. Likely some time tonight.

 

[Stopper]

Stopper updated [Experimental] Alternative Futa with a new update entry:

Prototype for hiding female gens

Adds initial support for a mode that hides the female gens. Some notes:

• Renders the base G2F mesh in place of the female gens, which unfortunately doesn't have an anus.
  • This will be difficult to fix...
• Adds an option to draw the pelvis region of the male gen mesh.
  • The edges of this are pinned to the base body, and it will deform to keep them aligned.
    • At some point I'll try doing this for the penis submesh as well.
  • Not all...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[ambiguous]

This is fantastic! I'm very excited about the possibilities this brings to VAM, and I was tinkering around with this last night and other than some initial learning curves, it worked surprisingly well minus a couple plugin incompatibilities (divining lips and hands doesn't seem to recognize the added penis as a penis for triggering that plugins morphs, for example.) It also breaks tittymagic as someone else had said previously.

Just tested again with the new version just to be sure it didn't accidentally fix anything (no change), and I'd like to second the ask for tittymagic compatibility, if that's possible. There's a few different scenarios I've seen:

• You add this futa plugin first, then tittymagic (v70)
  • In this case, tittymagic's UI is just broken (blank gray) and it doesn't do anything.
• You add tittymagic first, then this futa plugin.
  • If tittymagic's default auto adjust breast mass is turned on, as soon as it tries to do that it'll just freeze and stop working entirely. You can turn this off though (and that setting is saved if the plugin is loaded as part of a preset), which brings us to scenario 3.
• You add tittymagic first, then futa plugin, and you've turned off auto calibration.
  • This does a couple things. First, it disables the tittymagic morphs the moment the futa plugin is applied.
    • If you look at active morphs on the person both before and after applying the futa plugin, you can see pose morphs that are deforming the breast mesh dynamically with movement. Those freeze as soon as the futa plugin is applied, and those morphs are why the plugin is great. Otherwise it's just a different way of manipulating the soft physics settings, which you can do without the use of the plugin.
  • Second, some random amount of time later (sometimes soon, sometimes several minutes, and I always tested while having active force atoms applied to cause movement), the tittymagic plugin starts spitting out errors repeatedly: "Tittymagic 5.2.4: person skin materials not found after 15 seconds of waiting. Try reloading, and please report an issue."
    • This error message forces the UI open, so it's pretty distracting. Ignorable if you have the UI open anyways while editing, but not so much while actually enjoying a scene.
    • Given that you've stated this plugin of yours changes the skin, that might be causing the issue, as maybe it's being changed into something tittymagic doesn't recognize/thinks it can't work with. Which is kinda odd, cuz you can still apply and use the plugin on a male model... it just only applies to the hard collider physics since the male mesh doesn't have the soft colliders.

As a separate ask, it'd be great if we had a way to save presets using this plugin. It does work if you save everything as a scene. However, you can try to save looks and appearance presets using it, but the penis and any subsequent changes to it won't be part of the look since it isn't actually there until the plugin makes it appear. Consequently, you cannot actually save the location or appearance of said penis, if you're applying it to a model that needs adjusting. This means every time I'd want to use it in a new scene, I'd have to manually apply it, adjust the position, size/look, etc. Then, adjust colliders to fit (I can save presets for that in collider editor though.) I'm not sure how this would work since it would appear penis/male morphs don't apply to loaded looks/appearances that were utilizing this plugin. Perhaps it could be a session or scene plugin that applies the penis before the look is loaded/processed, possibly allowing the saved morphs to actually be applied? If that's a possibility, maybe you name the look or appearance preset following a certain format for it to trigger the penis during load? Or maybe it just gets its own form of presets saved in the plugindata folder, like collider editor or cuamanager does so you can quickly add/load the plugin via a preset, then just load the position/appearance preset for it or something. Heck, maybe a mix, where you have saved presets that are triggered when a look/appearance present with a matching name are loaded. I dunno.

 

[Stopper]

This is fantastic! I'm very excited about the possibilities this brings to VAM, and I was tinkering around with this last night and other than some initial learning curves, it worked surprisingly well minus a couple plugin incompatibilities (divining lips and hands doesn't seem to recognize the added penis as a penis for triggering that plugins morphs, for example.) It also breaks tittymagic as someone else had said previously.

Just tested again with the new version just to be sure it didn't accidentally fix anything (no change), and I'd like to second the ask for tittymagic compatibility, if that's possible. There's a few different scenarios I've seen:

• You add this futa plugin first, then tittymagic (v70)
  • In this case, tittymagic's UI is just broken (blank gray) and it doesn't do anything.
• You add tittymagic first, then this futa plugin.
  • If tittymagic's default auto adjust breast mass is turned on, as soon as it tries to do that it'll just freeze and stop working entirely. You can turn this off though (and that setting is saved if the plugin is loaded as part of a preset), which brings us to scenario 3.
• You add tittymagic first, then futa plugin, and you've turned off auto calibration.
  • This does a couple things. First, it disables the tittymagic morphs the moment the futa plugin is applied.
    • If you look at active morphs on the person both before and after applying the futa plugin, you can see pose morphs that are deforming the breast mesh dynamically with movement. Those freeze as soon as the futa plugin is applied, and those morphs are why the plugin is great. Otherwise it's just a different way of manipulating the soft physics settings, which you can do without the use of the plugin.
  • Second, some random amount of time later (sometimes soon, sometimes several minutes, and I always tested while having active force atoms applied to cause movement), the tittymagic plugin starts spitting out errors repeatedly: "Tittymagic 5.2.4: person skin materials not found after 15 seconds of waiting. Try reloading, and please report an issue."
    • This error message forces the UI open, so it's pretty distracting. Ignorable if you have the UI open anyways while editing, but not so much while actually enjoying a scene.
    • Given that you've stated this plugin of yours changes the skin, that might be causing the issue, as maybe it's being changed into something tittymagic doesn't recognize/thinks it can't work with. Which is kinda odd, cuz you can still apply and use the plugin on a male model... it just only applies to the hard collider physics since the male mesh doesn't have the soft colliders.

As a separate ask, it'd be great if we had a way to save presets using this plugin. It does work if you save everything as a scene. However, you can try to save looks and appearance presets using it, but the penis and any subsequent changes to it won't be part of the look since it isn't actually there until the plugin makes it appear. Consequently, you cannot actually save the location or appearance of said penis, if you're applying it to a model that needs adjusting. This means every time I'd want to use it in a new scene, I'd have to manually apply it, adjust the position, size/look, etc. Then, adjust colliders to fit (I can save presets for that in collider editor though.) I'm not sure how this would work since it would appear penis/male morphs don't apply to loaded looks/appearances that were utilizing this plugin. Perhaps it could be a session or scene plugin that applies the penis before the look is loaded/processed, possibly allowing the saved morphs to actually be applied? If that's a possibility, maybe you name the look or appearance preset following a certain format for it to trigger the penis during load? Or maybe it just gets its own form of presets saved in the plugindata folder, like collider editor or cuamanager does so you can quickly add/load the plugin via a preset, then just load the position/appearance preset for it or something. Heck, maybe a mix, where you have saved presets that are triggered when a look/appearance present with a matching name are loaded. I dunno.

Thanks for all the feedback! I, too, am surprised that this works to any degree.

I haven't even started to look into compatibility, but TM's near the top of my list. I haven't even checked if it plays nice with my xray plugin...

Saving and loading of presets is a good idea. I've been missing this function myself during testing. I'd probably start with something (hopefully) straightforward; manual save and load like presets for DecalMaker or ColliderEditor.

 

[Stopper]

Stopper updated [Experimental] Alternative Futa with a new update entry:

Migrating to using regular morphs

This plugin previously created morphs from code. This didn't work for some people and required a newer version of VAM. I've migrated to using regular morphs using ceq3's Morph Merge and Split.

Morph Merge and Split - Plugins -

Merges morphs together and properly split them into head and body morphs. Main features: Ability to merge morphs together Export the result in a whole body morph or separately for the head and the body Automatically fixes head height (preview...

hub.virtamate.com

Hopefully this resolves some issues people have been seeing.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[TheDJin]

big thanks for keeping that amazing plugin in progress.
Things getting better in every update.
and thanks for all your efforts.

About the hiding female gen. I thought about a solution, but not sure about the efficiency of it.

The idea is to make a cloth with a skin material hiding the vagina region. But I'm not sure it's possible.

 

[Stopper]

big thanks for keeping that amazing plugin in progress.
Things getting better in every update.
and thanks for all your efforts.

About the hiding female gen. I thought about a solution, but not sure about the efficiency of it.

The idea is to make a cloth with a skin material hiding the vagina region. But I'm not sure it's possible.

Yeah, it's not a bad idea; something that only covers the vagina, rather than the whole genital area. I'm probably going to try various ways to alter/deform existing meshes first, though.

 

[gghhoosstt123]

Yeah, it's not a bad idea; something that only covers the vagina, rather than the whole genital area. I'm probably going to try various ways to alter/deform existing meshes first, though.

WeebUVR also have the clothing for penis which adds the functionality of adding different textures and all so it might be possible to make a clothing like this too for vagina which can help hide it completely or blend in with body. i am a noob to this stuff so don't know if it is possible for vagina just like it was for the penis that weebuvr made the clothing for.

 

[3rdStoryline]

Ya like others mentioned this breaks TittyMagic, though it also breaks HunttingSuccubus SubSurface Scattering plugin.
Also, as noted from others, this doesn't load well from scene saves in two different ways. One: On load general morphs are messed up until you toggle Use Male/female morphs, or load preset, like you mentioned already. The Second thing that isn't loading properly for some reason, is your Morphs to adjust positioning. I have to go in and manually adjust them every time I reload, to fit my character again.

I for one vote to keep the Vagina. Having both Gen's on a character in VaM has been a number one desire for me since I first came across VaM.

I think after you get some of the more pressing things fixed, I think resolving compatibility with everlasters: Tittymagic/Naturalis, and HunttingSuccubus: SubSurface Scattering plugin should be a higher priority, as those two plugins make a world of difference in VaM.
If the Three plugins can work seamlessly together, then VaM will officially have the best Futa sim content.

Keep up your mad scientist work!

 

[Stopper]

Ya like others mentioned this breaks TittyMagic, though it also breaks HunttingSuccubus SubSurface Scattering plugin.
Also, as noted from others, this doesn't load well from scene saves in two different ways. One: On load general morphs are messed up until you toggle Use Male/female morphs, or load preset, like you mentioned already. The Second thing that isn't loading properly for some reason, is your Morphs to adjust positioning. I have to go in and manually adjust them every time I reload, to fit my character again.

I for one vote to keep the Vagina. Having both Gen's on a character in VaM has been a number one desire for me since I first came across VaM.

I think after you get some of the more pressing things fixed, I think resolving compatibility with everlasters: Tittymagic/Naturalis, and HunttingSuccubus: SubSurface Scattering plugin should be a higher priority, as those two plugins make a world of difference in VaM.
If the Three plugins can work seamlessly together, then VaM will officially have the best Futa sim content.

Keep up your mad scientist work!

I can see why this would offend SubSurface Scattering, but TM was a surprise to me. Luckily Everlaster was kind enough to take a look and give me some refences into what was breaking.

Honestly, though, I shouldn't be surprised when this doesn't cooperate with seemingly unrelated plugins given just how much VAM resented me doing this in the first place. Some of the intermediate results were pure horror...


I also don't mind having both sets of genitals on the model, but a lot of people were asking for male-only and I wanted to see if I could do it.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback!

 

[Stopper]

WeebUVR also have the clothing for penis which adds the functionality of adding different textures and all so it might be possible to make a clothing like this too for vagina which can help hide it completely or blend in with body. i am a noob to this stuff so don't know if it is possible for vagina just like it was for the penis that weebuvr made the clothing for.

I'm a noob at this myself, but my issue is that the DAZ genital meshes VAM uses are not free. Male gens come in a bundle that's like $130 USD. Female gens are only $13 but still... The mesh I bundled with my plugin was produced by having the VAM male mesh dump itself to a file.

The other thing is that the only issue I have with the 'base' mesh is that it doesn't have a butthole. I feel like I can remedy that with creative applications of morphs and grafting.

 

[gghhoosstt123]

I'm a noob at this myself, but my issue is that the DAZ genital meshes VAM uses are not free. Male gens come in a bundle that's like $130 USD. Female gens are only $13 but still... The mesh I bundled with my plugin was produced by having the VAM male mesh dump itself to a file.

The other thing is that the only issue I have with the 'base' mesh is that it doesn't have a butthole. I feel like I can remedy that with creative applications of morphs and grafting.

Nah man how you noob with this you litrelly doing something that not even the own creator of game ever did XD but yea i understand the task at hand is pretty rough considering the pricing and stuff.

 

[lluser13]

This plugin is a game changer and I deeply appreciate it. I just wanted to mention that when you move the gens with the mesh morphs the surrounding pelvis does weird things - the morph seemingly to match something - where as in previous versions of this plugin that didn't happen. I don't care for the hiding and newer features so I turned it all off but the pelvis still moves weird with the penis moving morphs being changed

 

[3rdStoryline]

I can see why this would offend SubSurface Scattering, but TM was a surprise to me. Luckily Everlaster was kind enough to take a look and give me some refences into what was breaking.

Honestly, though, I shouldn't be surprised when this doesn't cooperate with seemingly unrelated plugins given just how much VAM resented me doing this in the first place. Some of the intermediate results were pure horror...
View attachment 252276

I also don't mind having both sets of genitals on the model, but a lot of people were asking for male-only and I wanted to see if I could do it.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback!

Just as food for thought, in case you haven't already considered it, you could use/extend the Perineum mesh to cover the vagina, and maybe make a morph that moves the vagina up or squashes it. Then you'd have the functional anus of the G2F model, and if people want to have the vagina visible: just have a morph that pushes the Perineum mesh up out of the way of the vagina. Heck, you could probably make a slider in the plugin that includes the two morphs, and just adjusting the slider would make vagina visible/accessible or not. Thus giving the best of both worlds(that or we can just go adjust the morphs ourselves as I've heard incorperating that in a plugin can sometimes take some time.) Although there is still the case of seams. Your best bet (IMO) is to just have the entire Genital Mesh available, as it would make doing seamless textures a lot easier. When I was trying to fix the seams for my own models, the hardest part was attempting to guess where your custom mesh lined up, as you can't export the model when your plugin is active. Having the entire Gen Mesh might be the best route(without the anus). And then ya having alpha available can compensate for any inaccuracies, but that may cause even more incompatibilities with HuntTingSuccuBus's SSS.

I dunno at this point I'm just rambling on. Just sharing the thoughts I had when I was attempting to fix the seams.

 

[Stopper]

Stopper updated [Experimental] Alternative Futa with a new update entry:

Material Customization improvements. Compatibility with TittyMagic

• Fixed the initial (final? ?) compatibility issue with Everlaster's TittyMagic.
• Seems to also now work with HuntingSuccubus' SubsurfaceScattering plugin.
• Added material options for the 'override' pelvis used for when vagina is hidden.
  • Added a selector of whether to use the body or vagina texture for this. The fundamental problem is that this portion of the texture is typically not visible, so it's a toss-up between what the creator put there.
  • The vagina textures...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Stopper]

Just as food for thought, in case you haven't already considered it, you could use/extend the Perineum mesh to cover the vagina, and maybe make a morph that moves the vagina up or squashes it. Then you'd have the functional anus of the G2F model, and if people want to have the vagina visible: just have a morph that pushes the Perineum mesh up out of the way of the vagina. Heck, you could probably make a slider in the plugin that includes the two morphs, and just adjusting the slider would make vagina visible/accessible or not. Thus giving the best of both worlds(that or we can just go adjust the morphs ourselves as I've heard incorperating that in a plugin can sometimes take some time.) Although there is still the case of seams. Your best bet (IMO) is to just have the entire Genital Mesh available, as it would make doing seamless textures a lot easier. When I was trying to fix the seams for my own models, the hardest part was attempting to guess where your custom mesh lined up, as you can't export the model when your plugin is active. Having the entire Gen Mesh might be the best route(without the anus). And then ya having alpha available can compensate for any inaccuracies, but that may cause even more incompatibilities with HuntTingSuccuBus's SSS.

I dunno at this point I'm just rambling on. Just sharing the thoughts I had when I was attempting to fix the seams.

Yeah, it's an option. The existing female morphs can effectively 'close' the vagina at higher values. I might play around with it more, but I've got zero 3D modeling/morphing experience so it'd take me a good while to come up with something that looks good up close.

I do like this approach since it'll allow more skins to work natively. The mesh that covers the vagina is typically not visible and many textures don't render it well. The vagina mesh is at least guaranteed to be textured well. It might be what I ultimately end up doing.



I was first going to try morphing the base G2F pelvis such that it clips inside the body around where the anus should be. Mostly because it's easier.

If anyone with morph experience wants to try their hand at making a morph that closes the vagina in a way that hides the stitch line, let me know...

 

[VamTimbo]

Damn this is getting good!! Keep it up man!!

 

[gghhoosstt123]

Thanks to the addition of male pelvis system the autocock plugin is now fully functional and all the stuff are now working. I think before due to it being a female pelvis only, the autocock plugin was showing limited options. Things like shaft curve etc etc were missing but its no longer the case ✌

 

[VamTimbo]

@Stopper crazy idea.. maybe it’s possible to retexture the vagina to look like an anus? And possibly with morphs it can be moved a little? Then you get an anus with vaginal physics.. right? Just an idea. May not work in practice.

 

[gghhoosstt123]

I seem to have encountered an issue, when the penis is in flaccid instead of pointing down it seems to point up instead, i don't remember having this issue on old version, what could be the cause of it?

 

[3rdStoryline]

Damn dude, pump'n out these updates like a mad scientist indeed!

The male pelvis is great, can definitely have zero seam with that route.

I'm noticing a couple problems trying out the latest build though.
1. I don't believe colliders are updating properly with ColliderEditor(or possibly in general?). But I'm not certain on how to describe the problem, as results appear to be very random, often causing deformed looks mostly when flaccid. I believe the Auto Buffers and Multipliers for the penis colliders are not updating correctly. It also doesn't register there is a penis on save load. Spitting out some errors in the process. Removing collidereditor and re-adding it resolves the errors, and it finds all the right collisions at that point, however the Auto Buffers and multipliers aren't updating when the size and shape of the penis are adjusted. It's likely why @gghhoosstt123 is having the issue pointed out above.?

Spoiler: error log

!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'AutoCollider:hip.pelvis.Gen1.AutoColliderGen1.AutoColliderGen1' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'AutoCollider:hip.pelvis.Gen1.Gen2.AutoColliderGen2.AutoColliderGen2' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'AutoCollider:hip.pelvis.Gen1.Gen2.Gen3.AutoColliderGen3a.AutoColliderGen3a' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'AutoCollider:hip.pelvis.Gen1.Gen2.Gen3.AutoColliderGen3b.AutoColliderGen3b' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'CapsuleCollider:hip.pelvis.Testes._Collider1._Collider1' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'CapsuleCollider:hip.pelvis.Testes._Collider2._Collider2' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'CapsuleCollider:hip.pelvis.Testes._Collider3._Collider3' defined in save file.

2. When selecting torso textures(under the Skin Textures menu,) it applies them to the Male Pelvis area as-well(with-in the plugin), this includes diffuse, specular, gloss, and normal. You can however switch them after applying the texture to the character. And upon loading a save file, everything texture-wise works well. It just appears to be on initial setup of the textures.

 

[Stopper]

I seem to have encountered an issue, when the penis is in flaccid instead of pointing down it seems to point up instead, i don't remember having this issue on old version, what could be the cause of it?

Hrm. Can you take a look at where the colliders are next time this happens? Occasionally the colliders end up tiny and stuck in the middle of the hip area. Switching to a male gen and back fixes it and I'm not sure what the cause is.

Damn dude, pump'n out these updates like a mad scientist indeed!

The male pelvis is great, can definitely have zero seam with that route.

I'm noticing a couple problems trying out the latest build though.
1. I don't believe colliders are updating properly with ColliderEditor(or possibly in general?). But I'm not certain on how to describe the problem, as results appear to be very random, often causing deformed looks mostly when flaccid. I believe the Auto Buffers and Multipliers for the penis colliders are not updating correctly. It also doesn't register there is a penis on save load. Spitting out some errors in the process. Removing collidereditor and re-adding it resolves the errors, and it finds all the right collisions at that point, however the Auto Buffers and multipliers aren't updating when the size and shape of the penis are adjusted. It's likely why @gghhoosstt123 is having the issue pointed out above.?

Spoiler: error log

!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'AutoCollider:hip.pelvis.Gen1.AutoColliderGen1.AutoColliderGen1' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'AutoCollider:hip.pelvis.Gen1.Gen2.AutoColliderGen2.AutoColliderGen2' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'AutoCollider:hip.pelvis.Gen1.Gen2.Gen3.AutoColliderGen3a.AutoColliderGen3a' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'AutoCollider:hip.pelvis.Gen1.Gen2.Gen3.AutoColliderGen3b.AutoColliderGen3b' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'CapsuleCollider:hip.pelvis.Testes._Collider1._Collider1' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'CapsuleCollider:hip.pelvis.Testes._Collider2._Collider2' defined in save file.
!> ColliderEditor: Did not find 'CapsuleCollider:hip.pelvis.Testes._Collider3._Collider3' defined in save file.

2. When selecting torso textures(under the Skin Textures menu,) it applies them to the Male Pelvis area as-well(with-in the plugin), this includes diffuse, specular, gloss, and normal. You can however switch them after applying the texture to the character. And upon loading a save file, everything texture-wise works well. It just appears to be on initial setup of the textures.

Might be the same issue as gghhoosstt123 mentioned. There've always been some issues with the colliders. I don't think I did anything that would have made it worse, but it can be real finnicky so who knows. I'll look into it with the next update.

I'll look into the male pelvis textures as well. The female ones are supposed to follow the main skin but the male ones shouldn't.