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Feedback on proposed Paid content submission procedures.

VaMDeV

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Please leave any questions, comments or feedback regarding our recent Upcoming changes to Paid content submission procedure announcement in this thread.


Official Announcement
 
I have a question about this part:

5. The .var file I am attaching to this form is identical to the version offered on my pay site. If I modify or update my .var, I will update my resource on the Hub and attach the new file to the update form. I further understand that as per Hub policies, I can only add or update 3 paid resources per week.

Wouldn't this be too limiting and lead to either not following the rule or limit bug fixing/improvements on the resource? As in, if I had to choose between a slot for a new resource or a fixed/improved resource, I would opt for the new one and not on improving existing content.
 
I have a question about this part:

5. The .var file I am attaching to this form is identical to the version offered on my pay site. If I modify or update my .var, I will update my resource on the Hub and attach the new file to the update form. I further understand that as per Hub policies, I can only add or update 3 paid resources per week.

Wouldn't this be too limiting and lead to either not following the rule or limit bug fixing/improvements on the resource? As in, if I had to choose between a slot for a new resource or a fixed/improved resource, I would opt for the new one and not on improving existing content.
If you opt to make a new file, you will have to have it rescanned on the hub if you wish to advertise it.

Essentially this is set up so that we have an agreement from the poster that the var file they are advertising is the same as what you will download from their Patreon or whatever. If we find evidence that their var file is significantly different then what we scanned then that trust is broken and we can make the decision to not allow them to advertise on our site.

It is going to be a judgment call on our side, right? For version changes of plugins that they are actively iterating on. That is not a big deal.

However if the off site var has bundled NC content that was not in the scan and they do not have permission to share. That is a huge deal!
 
Do you plan to eventually become file distributors? (for example, after subscribing to patreon, the user will gain access to the library of resources stored on the Hub)
 
Do you plan to eventually become file distributors? (for example, after subscribing to patreon, the user will gain access to the library of resources stored on the Hub)
We have discussed this a lot. However what stops us is that we would be responsible if the proprietary content was ever leaked. We feel it’s best to stay away from that and host only Free content.

Also why all scanned PC vars are deleted and not held by us in the upcoming submission changes.
 
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We have discussed this a lot. However what stops us is that we would be responsible if the proprietary content was ever leaked. We feel it’s best to stay away from that and host only Free content.

Also why all scanned PC vars are deleted and not held by us in the upcoming submission changes.
But if you're already deleting scanned PC vars now, why couldn't that happen the same if you become file distributors? Or in the process of scanning, prevent the upload of vars using proprietary content?
 
Two questions.
1. Since you will know payed var dependencies, can you make them be downloadable through hub (only dependencies) and with external link for the main file, so I can host on patreon only my var file and not think about how my clients need download dependencies? (They will manually download and drop one file, and click "download all" in builtin hub)
2. (In general) Is it acceptable to manually remove sub dependencies in meta.json file inside var, if they don't appear in scene anyway.
 
But if you're already deleting scanned PC vars now, why couldn't that happen the same if you become file distributors? Or in the process of scanning, prevent the upload of vars using proprietary content?
We are not scanning any PC vars now. We are planning on doing it in the near future. Which is why we posted the announcement. We will notify the poster at the time of the PC Var scan that their var has NC content within it. I hope this answered your question.
 
Two questions.
1. Since you will know payed var dependencies, can you make them be downloadable through hub (only dependencies) and with external link for the main file, so I can host on patreon only my var file and not think about how my clients need download dependencies? (They will manually download and drop one file, and click "download all" in builtin hub)
2. (In general) Is it acceptable to manually remove sub dependencies in meta.json file inside var, if they don't appear in scene anyway.
1) We are not planning on hosting any PC content on the Hub. If you are using Free content references in your PC vars the missing files will show up when the user runs a "Scan Hub for Missing Referenced Packages" from the in-game Hub Browser.

2) It is recommended that you don't.

1705029983986.png
 
It would be greatly helpful if the var file names were retained along with the scan results, so that they can be indexed and properly referenced when they are in other vars' dependencies.
 
I would like to ask you, should I put my VAR here "External download URL"? Available for your review? How do I upload my VAR? I got it, my mega. May I ? Then put the mega link. Is this the case when putting it in "External download URL"?
 
I would like to ask you, should I put my VAR here "External download URL"? Available for your review? How do I upload my VAR? I got it, my mega. May I ? Then put the mega link. Is this the case when putting it in "External download URL"?
There will be an “upload var button” when the feature is available. Just like in the free section.
It’s not there yet, that’s why you don’t see it now.
 
So that's it. Thank you very much for your answer. I thought I would publish another free scene in the free scene for the community to download and review! It's not implemented yet, right?
There will be an “upload var button” when the feature is available. Just like in the free section.
It’s not there yet, that’s why you don’t see it now.
 
If you opt to make a new file, you will have to have it rescanned on the hub if you wish to advertise it.

Essentially this is set up so that we have an agreement from the poster that the var file they are advertising is the same as what you will download from their Patreon or whatever. If we find evidence that their var file is significantly different then what we scanned then that trust is broken and we can make the decision to not allow them to advertise on our site.

It is going to be a judgment call on our side, right? For version changes of plugins that they are actively iterating on. That is not a big deal.

However if the off site var has bundled NC content that was not in the scan and they do not have permission to share. That is a huge deal!
Do I understand this correctly that I only have to rescan my already posted resource if I,m making an update to it (therefore it is advertised) ? Usually I update my stuff whenever I can on Patreon, and let my Hub updates lag back in time because not always I can fit them in the "3 paids per week" limit. Would I only be breaking the rule if I posted an update on the hub and didn't rescan my .var while doing so?
 
@VAMFantasy @atani @ispinox

In regards to the questions about updates. We hear you. The issue is that the "3 paid posts per week" rule may conflict with the "all Hub updates must be synced with your patreon updates". I would call this problem "fluid", and we will actively discuss ways we might modify things to ease the burden on creators.

Don't consider this an official statement, but personally I have spent a lot of time thinking about this. The "3 posts" rule exists because the default Paid category page is a list of resources sorted by most recent. If a creator spam-posts several Paid resources, they fill up the page and cause other creators' work to go unseen. I personally have thought the solution to this issue might be to restructure the default landing page for resources so that "most recent" is not the primary, or only, way that the resources are displayed. If that were the case, we could probably retire the "3 posts" rule.

In the meantime, while we are working on a solution, we ask that you please bear with us and plan your updates strategically. We will address this issue in some way before or soon after release of the new Paid submission form.
 
Two questions.
1. Since you will know payed var dependencies, can you make them be downloadable through hub (only dependencies) and with external link for the main file, so I can host on patreon only my var file and not think about how my clients need download dependencies? (They will manually download and drop one file, and click "download all" in builtin hub)

This would be an overly complex modification, so your users should rely on the in-game "scan hub for missing dependencies" as @VaMDeV suggested. If, when you scan your var on the website, you make sure that you only have "Hub Hosted" dependencies, then your users should have no problem in-game and you shouldn't need to host any dependencies yourself on your Patreon page.


2. (In general) Is it acceptable to manually remove sub dependencies in meta.json file inside var, if they don't appear in scene anyway.

We do not recommend this for a couple reasons.
1. The moderation team considers tampering with the meta.json file to be suspicious and potentially a violation of our policies
2. VaM is designed to use all of the information in your meta.json. Although technically your scene may only "use" 1st tier dependencies, some of those dependencies require the 2nd tier. If you remove the 2nd tier from the meta.json, then your scene will load with errors, or may not load at all. This is why we recommend to all creators to package your scene well and try to limit dependencies, creating your own content wherever you can.
 
It would be greatly helpful if the var file names were retained along with the scan results, so that they can be indexed and properly referenced when they are in other vars' dependencies.

Retaining the file names is no problem, however I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "indexed and properly referenced".

Since this is Paid Content we're talking about, it would be illegal to use these vars as dependencies in other work without the creator's permission. So, for example, if it were possible for you to upload a var and have the system automatically add this Paid Content as a dependency or credit on the website, you would immediately be contacted by the moderation team for violating our policies on PC/NC licensed content use.
 
@VAMFantasy @atani @ispinox

In regards to the questions about updates. We hear you. The issue is that the "3 paid posts per week" rule may conflict with the "all Hub updates must be synced with your patreon updates". I would call this problem "fluid", and we will actively discuss ways we might modify things to ease the burden on creators.

Don't consider this an official statement, but personally I have spent a lot of time thinking about this. The "3 posts" rule exists because the default Paid category page is a list of resources sorted by most recent. If a creator spam-posts several Paid resources, they fill up the page and cause other creators' work to go unseen. I personally have thought the solution to this issue might be to restructure the default landing page for resources so that "most recent" is not the primary, or only, way that the resources are displayed. If that were the case, we could probably retire the "3 posts" rule.

In the meantime, while we are working on a solution, we ask that you please bear with us and plan your updates strategically. We will address this issue in some way before or soon after release of the new Paid submission form.
Would there be a way to make the default landing page to have two different categories? One with "Recently Updated" and the other "New to the hub" or something like that? This way people can filter out the recently updated with the brand new content if they so choose. Just a idea.
 
We do not recommend this for a couple reasons.
1. The moderation team considers tampering with the meta.json file to be suspicious and potentially a violation of our policies
2. VaM is designed to use all of the information in your meta.json. Although technically your scene may only "use" 1st tier dependencies, some of those dependencies require the 2nd tier. If you remove the 2nd tier from the meta.json, then your scene will load with errors, or may not load at all. This is why we recommend to all creators to package your scene well and try to limit dependencies, creating your own content wherever you can.
To be fair, point 2 is not applicable - the first-tier dependencies already tell VAM what their dependencies are, so if the user downloads all dependencies that VAM complains are missing, there is no possibility of the content not working because of the sub-dependencies being deleted from the meta.json.

The entire premise of deleting sub-dependencies is that they are not needed by the actual content that is being uploaded, they are only needed by the dependencies. The most common case is something like a demo scene for a look, and another scene uses that look, and the creator doesn't want to pollute their meta.json (and by extension, the dependencies on their hub post) with all of the extra unnecessary stuff that only the look's demo scene depends on. Deleting sub-dependencies is a workaround to VAM's own inefficiencies and shortcomings when it comes to dependency management, so I think the moderation team should allow workarounds that aren't causing any harm. :)
 
5. The .var file I am attaching to this form is identical to the version offered on my pay site. If I modify or update my .var, I will update my resource on the Hub and attach the new file to the update form. I further understand that as per Hub policies, I can only add or update 3 paid resources per week.

To be super clear, does "update" in the part "If I modify or update my .var" mean "update my package with a new version"? As in, if I advertise a paid everlaster.Something.1.var resource, and publish an updated version everlaster.Something.2.var on Patreon, I must also update the Hub post?
 
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