Questions about creating joint correction morphs (Vam to blender to Vam)

[kanhun3833]

hello,

I change the file format from vam to daz, export it to blender and sculpt it, then go through daz again and apply the morph to vam.

When I export the look from vam to make a morph, if I export it in the default posture and work, the morph is formed according to the desired intention.

The problem is that in order to create a morph such as joint correction, when exporting from vam, the joint must be extracted in a bent state, making it easier to work in Blender. (For detailed joint description), after blender sculpting with the joint bent, and then going through Daz and checking the morph in vam, it is deformed, but it is deformed completely differently than intended. Is there any way to solve this?

 

[Origin69]

****************** Edit *****************
This doesn't work. Solution is in post #12
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Could try it with three morphs?

Pose the model with the joint bent in Daz, then export an .obj. Reset the pose and create a morph from that to bend the joint. Export a new obj and make your changes in blender. When you make the second morph which has the first bend baked in, would setting the first morph to -100 put everything right? You could then just save a new morph from what's left.

 

[kanhun3833]

[

Could try it with three morphs?

Pose the model with the joint bent in Daz, then export an .obj. Reset the pose and create a morph from that to bend the joint. Export a new obj and make your changes in blender. When you make the second morph which has the first bend baked in, would setting the first morph to -100 put everything right? You could then just save a new morph from what's left.

I don't know if it's possible to re-position the obj model loaded from vam on daz. (Maybe something I don't know.) I do a pose in vam and then export it as obj. Sculpting in blender and then applying joint correction morphs in daz works well as I intended. However, when I check this in vam, it is applied in a completely different form. I don't know if vam has a joint correction function, so it comes out like that, but I'm sure it's an internal problem with vam...

Can you elaborate on what you said?. I don't quite understand...
And -100 refers to the degree of morph transformation?

 

[Origin69]

****************** Edit *****************
This doesn't work. Solution is in post #12
*******************************************


I don't use the "Vam to blender to Vam" method. I tend to work straight from a blank genesis 2 model so I was imagining a rigged model in Daz when I replied first. (I prefer to make individual morphs on the base Gen2 shape from Daz. I can tweak them more easily with other morphs before combining them into one full body morph in Vam.)

I think the issue is caused by you exporting a posed figure from Vam first. A Morph just moves vertices a set distance and direction, It has no idea of the characters pose in relation to the vertices.

If the vertices are in different positions relative to the basic shape to start with, the morph won't look right when you try to load it on the base model in Vam. Vam needs to know what the morph does to the base shape without the pose in order for it to effect the vertices in the right way when you have the model posed later. (It's kind of like in chess, you know that a pawn moves forward one square. If you turn the board 90 degrees and try to move the pawn forward one, it's actually going sideways)

So you will need to - pose the model, change its shape and then reset the pose to export the morph.

This would be easier exporting a Base Resolution Genesis 2 model from Daz and making the morphs from that. You could then skip the first four steps.

If this needs to be with your own figure from Vam, then it is possible to transfer the bone rigging in daz from a blank genesis2 model to your exported .obj with the transfer utility.
It will also be helpful for posing and testing the morph in Daz without the need to save and transfer the morph and restart Vam each time.




In Vam

Make sure your model is at 100% scale, "freeze physics" and "reset pose" then export the .obj file and import it to daz.

In Daz

1. Add a genesis2 figure.
2. Import your Vam models .obj. With it selected click Edit>Object>Rigging>Convert Prop to Figure... (keep the settings and click accept)
3. Go to Edit -> Figure -> Transfer Utility. In it, select your Source (Genesis 2) and Target (Imported Model) figures. In advanced options, de-select "Fit to Source Figure" and "Parent to Source Figure." Click accept.
4. You can delete the Genesis 2 Figure from the scene now.
5. The Target should now have the Rig of the Source figure and its Groups, surface, weight maps, etc. Pose the joint how you want and export an .obj (Lets call this "Shape A")
6. Reset the pose (Edit ->Figure ->Zero ->Zero Figure)
7. Use the Obj you exported in step 5 (Shape A) to create a morph with Morph Loader Pro. The morph should bend the joint. (lets call this "Morph 1") Test it out, but set it to 0% for now

In Blender

8. import the .obj from step 5 (Shape A) and make the alteration you want. Export a new .obj. (Lets call this shape B)

In Daz

9. Create a new morph with the new .obj (Shape B). Lets call this "Morph 2" Set it to 100%.
10. Set "Morph 1" to -100%. This should reset the joint, but keep your alterations
11. Export an new obj. (This is "Shape C")
12. Set both morphs to zero and create a new morph from "Shape C" . Name it what you want to call your morph and set to 100%. Save it as a support asset>morph and add it to Vam. It should now do what you want it to in Vam.

I hope it works for you

If your model is wildly different from the base model this may not work properly, but there may still be a work around (possibly with a zero shaped exported vam model and your model shape as an added morph, but that will add some steps)

Good Luck

 

[kanhun3833]

I don't use the "Vam to blender to Vam" method. I tend to work straight from a blank genesis 2 model so I was imagining a rigged model in Daz when I replied first. (I prefer to make individual morphs on the base Gen2 shape from Daz. I can tweak them more easily with other morphs before combining them into one full body morph in Vam.)

I think the issue is caused by you exporting a posed figure from Vam first. A Morph just moves vertices a set distance and direction, It has no idea of the characters pose in relation to the vertices.

If the vertices are in different positions relative to the basic shape to start with, the morph won't look right when you try to load it on the base model in Vam. Vam needs to know what the morph does to the base shape without the pose in order for it to effect the vertices in the right way when you have the model posed later. (It's kind of like in chess, you know that a pawn moves forward one square. If you turn the board 90 degrees and try to move the pawn forward one, it's actually going sideways)

So you will need to - pose the model, change its shape and then reset the pose to export the morph.

This would be easier exporting a Base Resolution Genesis 2 model from Daz and making the morphs from that. You could then skip the first four steps.

If this needs to be with your own figure from Vam, then it is possible to transfer the bone rigging in daz from a blank genesis2 model to your exported .obj with the transfer utility.
It will also be helpful for posing and testing the morph in Daz without the need to save and transfer the morph and restart Vam each time.




In Vam

Make sure your model is at 100% scale, "freeze physics" and "reset pose" then export the .obj file and import it to daz.

In Daz

1. Add a genesis2 figure.
2. Import your Vam models .obj. With it selected click Edit>Object>Rigging>Convert Prop to Figure... (keep the settings and click accept)
3. Go to Edit -> Figure -> Transfer Utility. In it, select your Source (Genesis 2) and Target (Imported Model) figures. In advanced options, de-select "Fit to Source Figure" and "Parent to Source Figure." Click accept.
4. You can delete the Genesis 2 Figure from the scene now.
5. The Target should now have the Rig of the Source figure and its Groups, surface, weight maps, etc. Pose the joint how you want and export an .obj (Lets call this "Shape A")
6. Reset the pose (Edit ->Figure ->Zero ->Zero Figure)
7. Use the Obj you exported in step 5 (Shape A) to create a morph with Morph Loader Pro. The morph should bend the joint. (lets call this "Morph 1") Test it out, but set it to 0% for now

In Blender

8. import the .obj from step 5 (Shape A) and make the alteration you want. Export a new .obj. (Lets call this shape B)

In Daz

9. Create a new morph with the new .obj (Shape B). Lets call this "Morph 2" Set it to 100%.
10. Set "Morph 1" to -100%. This should reset the joint, but keep your alterations
11. Export an new obj. (This is "Shape C")
12. Set both morphs to zero and create a new morph from "Shape C" . Name it what you want to call your morph and set to 100%. Save it as a support asset>morph and add it to Vam. It should now do what you want it to in Vam.

I hope it works for you

If your model is wildly different from the base model this may not work properly, but there may still be a work around (possibly with a zero shaped exported vam model and your model shape as an added morph, but that will add some steps)

Good Luck

Thank you very much for the detailed and quick reply.

but...I have a few questions...

When importing a VAM model into daz, what should be the convert type? (poser, 3Dmax, etc (of size or unit..)) . To do rigging, it seems to have to match the size of the Genesis 2 model... Or should I adjust the percentage and match it as much as possible? ..

And another question is, when extracting to obj after sculpting in Blender,
What should I extract from export to wavefront obj, or wavefront obj (legacy)?... (If I did it my way before, I did it with wavefront obj (legacy), but if I extract it anyway and make a morph with daz, (edit-figure- morph loader pro) It is not created because the geometry does not match...

What should I do?

 

[Origin69]

****************** Edit *****************
This doesn't work. Solution is in post #12
*******************************************


I just did some testing and there is something I'm missing with the Vam to blender to Vam method. I'm using a newer version of blender than the guide so I don't have the same options.
I made a simple spike on the forehead as a test morph and it made this eldritch horror...

As I said, all of my experience with morph making is using the genesis2 base model exported from daz. The process I detailed will work with that, you will just have to save your character as a morph to apply to the genesis 2 in daz. This is how I have done it before. You also wont need to transfer any rigging this way.

Use Morph Merger to turn your look into a full body morph

Plugins - Morph Merger

Morph Merger for VaM Combine your look into one morph by merging your morphs. Share a character without needing to share all those morphs, receive a look / scene without having to worry about bad morphs. Create a 'base morph' for values that...

hub.virtamate.com

Then use Vam to Daz to get your morph into Daz

Other - Vam To Daz 2

Introducing VAM To Daz 2 This is a utility I made to bring my VAM characters back into Daz Studio. Once it is in Daz you can then send the model out to Maya, Blender, Zbrush, etc... for further refinement. With a simple drag and drop operation...

hub.virtamate.com

When you load a new Genesis 2 model in Daz your look morph will be there under Perameters->Actor->VamToDaz.

Remember to set the Genesis 2 model to base resolution on the Perameters tab->Resolution level before you export an obj.

Once you have your character morph applied to a base genesis 2 model you can follow my previous post from step 5, but at step 10 turn your character morph to -100% as well as your joint pose morph. I think it will still work this way.


As for convertion type, I always use a custom scale import and export setting which works well. Scale 10000% for everything coming in (Imports, morph obj's etc.), and 1% for everything going out (Exports). That way vam models are the same size as the daz models, and blender doesn't get giants to work with. Don't forget to click "show individual setting >>" on the morph loader pro dialogue box to set the scale to 10000% when you are making the morphs if you exported at 1%.

Hope this all helps. Sorry l wasted our time by not testing it out before.

 

[kanhun3833]

I just did some testing and there is something I'm missing with the Vam to blender to Vam method. I'm using a newer version of blender than the guide so I don't have the same options.
I made a simple spike on the forehead as a test morph and it made this eldritch horror...
View attachment 269851


As I said, all of my experience with morph making is using the genesis2 base model exported from daz. The process I detailed will work with that, you will just have to save your character as a morph to apply to the genesis 2 in daz. This is how I have done it before. You also wont need to transfer any rigging this way.

Use Morph Merger to turn your look into a full body morph

Plugins - Morph Merger

Morph Merger for VaM Combine your look into one morph by merging your morphs. Share a character without needing to share all those morphs, receive a look / scene without having to worry about bad morphs. Create a 'base morph' for values that...

hub.virtamate.com

Then use Vam to Daz to get your morph into Daz

Other - Vam To Daz 2

Introducing VAM To Daz 2 This is a utility I made to bring my VAM characters back into Daz Studio. Once it is in Daz you can then send the model out to Maya, Blender, Zbrush, etc... for further refinement. With a simple drag and drop operation...

hub.virtamate.com

When you load a new Genesis 2 model in Daz your look morph will be there under Perameters->Actor->VamToDaz.

Remember to set the Genesis 2 model to base resolution on the Perameters tab->Resolution level before you export an obj.

Once you have your character morph applied to a base genesis 2 model you can follow my previous post from step 5, but at step 10 turn your character morph to -100% as well as your joint pose morph. I think it will still work this way.


As for convertion type, I always use a custom scale import and export setting which works well. Scale 10000% for everything coming in (Imports, morph obj's etc.), and 1% for everything going out (Exports). That way vam models are the same size as the daz models, and blender doesn't get giants to work with. Don't forget to click "show individual setting >>" on the morph loader pro dialogue box to set the scale to 10000% when you are making the morphs if you exported at 1%.

Hope this all helps. Sorry l wasted our time by not testing it out before.

Thank you for your active response.

As you said, after combining the morphs in vam and converting the morphs to daz , no rigging is needed in daz . But the problem is that when I base the resolution level, the daz just forces it to turn off... I guess it's purely a problem for me. If I change the resolution level to base without applying the morph loaded from vam, it works well, but if I just apply the morph loaded from vam and change the resolution level, daz just exits. Will there be What did I miss? ... I think I'm almost done once this problem is solved..
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First of all, since the rigging solution you suggested is not working, I am doing a method of copying the rigging by calling the Genesis 2 model you mentioned earlier and my vam model together. I don't know why it didn't work before (after sculpting in blender, morph loader pro couldn't import it. > Geometry error), it works well now. The preceding problem is probably Since I didn't apply the scale you said, I guess I'm getting a geometry error.

By the way, even if I follow the process you said (step 5,6,7 ~~), the morph is not applied properly for the folds of the joints..

Here I made some cone morphs to check the directionality of the folds of the joints. > (This is step 9 you mentioned earlier.)

Next is Step 10. According to my intention, the cone in the first picture should be kept perpendicular to the thigh area. However, the thigh portion morph was lost.

This is the final Shape C (step 12). Following your process, as you can see, it doesn't seem to work as intended... what am I missing?? ...maybe I misunderstood..

Still.. I'm learning a lot thanks to you.

 

[Origin69]

I don't know why you crash when you change the base resolution with the vam2daz morph applied. All of mine work fine, both before and after.

As for the morph images. I just did some more tests. I originally just did a spike on the elbow to test and I didn't see the issue, but doing spikes all over like you have on the leg I can see the problem. I think I may have a solution though.
Stand by...

 

[Origin69]

****************** Edit *****************
This doesn't work. Solution is in post #12
*******************************************

I've been staring at this for hours and I'm struggling to solve it.

My idea to use a negative morph to get it back into position is actually messing it up, but because I only used a spike on the elbow before I didn't see it.

You need to somehow get the bone rigging to line up again with the shapeB morph to be able to reset the pose without distorting the morph.

I've tried transfer utility from a gen 2 that uses the pose I started with. I've tried every way i can think off and the bones reset to the starting position outside of the figure.

I could move the bones in the editor and then reset it, but that's hard mode and involves weight painting, and if it doesn't sit it in the exact right position the morph will mess with the rest of the model.

If I can somehow pose the Gen2 rig and transfer it over the Shape2 morph, I can pose the foot back on the ground. That will be the shape the final morph needs to be (as all of the other vertices will be in the right place.)
I'll need to read more on transferring rigging to try and get this to work.

No solutions, just fresh problems.

 

[kanhun3833]

I've been staring at this for hours and I'm struggling to solve it.

My idea to use a negative morph to get it back into position is actually messing it up, but because I only used a spike on the elbow before I didn't see it.

You need to somehow get the bone rigging to line up again with the shapeB morph to be able to reset the pose without distorting the morph.

I've tried transfer utility from a gen 2 that uses the pose I started with. I've tried every way i can think off and the bones reset to the starting position outside of the figure.

View attachment 270319View attachment 270322

I could move the bones in the editor and then reset it, but that's hard mode and involves weight painting, and if it doesn't sit it in the exact right position the morph will mess with the rest of the model.

If I can somehow pose the Gen2 rig and transfer it over the Shape2 morph, I can pose the foot back on the ground. That will be the shape the final morph needs to be (as all of the other vertices will be in the right place.)
I'll need to read more on transferring rigging to try and get this to work.

No solutions, just fresh problems.

thank you. Anyway, I'll keep trying and let you know if I find a solution.
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Do you know how to edit the mesh in daz?
If it is modified, wouldn't it be necessary to rig it in Blender?

 

[Origin69]

thank you. Anyway, I'll keep trying and let you know if I find a solution.
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Do you know how to edit the mesh in daz?
If it is modified, wouldn't it be necessary to rig it in Blender?

I think you can edit the mesh geometry in daz's Geometry Editor, but I've never done it.
If you transfer the rig in blender you would need to be certain it is in exactly the same position as the genesis 2 rig in daz. I'm not that clued up on rigging. The rig root will set the model position, and if it is even slightly off every single vertex in the model will be included in the morph.

I'm sure there is an easier way to do this. To have a morph effect the posed rig so you can do it straight from a gen2 figure. I read something about "reverse deformations" yesterday, It might be the solution, but I'm not certain of the process yet.

 

[Origin69]

I got it. I cannot believe it was this simple.

1. Add a Genesis 2 Model and set it to base resolution and set the pose you want.

2. Export the .Obj and make your changes in Blender.
3. Open morph loader pro and select the altered .obj file. Expand the drop down menu and right click the line that says "reverse deformations" and change it to yes.

That will add the morph to the posed figure keeping the pose in place.

4. Now just zero the pose, and that will be the shape to export and make the morph you want from.

 

[kanhun3833]

I got it. I cannot believe it was this simple.

1. Add a Genesis 2 Model and set it to base resolution and set the pose you want.
View attachment 270514
2. Export the .Obj and make your changes in Blender.
3. Open morph loader pro and select the altered .obj file. Expand the drop down menu and right click the line that says "reverse deformations" and change it to yes.
View attachment 270515

That will add the morph to the posed figure keeping the pose in place.
View attachment 270519
4. Now just zero the pose, and that will be the shape to export and make the morph you want from.
View attachment 270520

Oh my god.. It was so simple.. Thank you so much. But what function is that? It does not seem to be a function that disables joint correction applied by default in daz's genesis2. Once the problem is solved, but I am worried that another problem may occur due to 'yes' to that function. Anyway thank you very much

 

[Origin69]

Oh my god.. It was so simple.. Thank you so much. But what function is that? It does not seem to be a function that disables joint correction applied by default in daz's genesis2. Once the problem is solved, but I am worried that another problem may occur due to 'yes' to that function. Anyway thank you very much

I think it just calculates the offset from the original shape, imported shape and the pose. I had never seen it before, I didn't even know that the list under the morph file was clickable. I assume it is .obj specific, but just double check it's set to off next time you make a standard morph.

The character seems in the right position once the pose is zeroed, so exporting an obj and making the final morph shouldn't cause any issues.

Good luck with your morphs, (I assume you're not actually making a cactus lady). Feel free @ me if you have any other querys.