Plugins Embody

[Case]

@DumbKoala I had two or three reports like this but I'm unable to reproduce myself, regardless how hard I try. If you have a surefire way to reproduce or if you can share more info about your setup, I'd love to fix that eventually.

Errrrh ... not sure it's the same thing, but I experienced smth like that (admittedly in an older Embody version) while running the setup Wizard. I set up a dedicated scene with a default "Michael", stood in my room, ran the Wizard, spawned a mirror ... and when I possessed, Michael was trying to snap his own neck, with the hands slaved to the orientation of my Touch-controllers, while his head was trying to face 180° away from the mirror ...

I never got that fixed, no matter whether I spawned the mirror myself or let Embody do it - and after a few tries, I gave up (turns out there's few things as disorienting as having your VR avatar's head doing instant 180° turns while you're trying to remain standing on your two feet in the real world ...).

My best guess is that it may be smth to do not with Embody, but with the Occulus XR runtime - the Occulus runtime knows three settings for world coordinates: Relative, keep playspace orientation and "bedmode". If you changed your orientation after defining a playspace, but before firing up VaM, then VaM's worldspace coordinates can differ drastically depending on which setting is active in the Occulus runtime ...

 

[ConSolotary]

@Acid Bubbles

The plugin does not give the desired effect. For example, if I put on an oculus (lie down on the sofa) and put your plugin (main problem)- the minimum that I can watch is the ceiling. If you turn the scene, then everything is destroyed.
So at the moment the plugin can only work well while sitting! (is horizontally).
Vertically, the plug-in is still raw. (think, I would be glad if they made the possibility of a hard binding in space - regardless of the person's pose in the real world and the view from the eyes, regardless of the pose in VR).
If you solve this problem I want to be the first to buy it
Thank you.

 

[SpeedHighway]

Errrrh ... not sure it's the same thing, but I experienced smth like that (admittedly in an older Embody version) while running the setup Wizard. I set up a dedicated scene with a default "Michael", stood in my room, ran the Wizard, spawned a mirror ... and when I possessed, Michael was trying to snap his own neck, with the hands slaved to the orientation of my Touch-controllers, while his head was trying to face 180° away from the mirror ...

I never got that fixed, no matter whether I spawned the mirror myself or let Embody do it - and after a few tries, I gave up (turns out there's few things as disorienting as having your VR avatar's head doing instant 180° turns while you're trying to remain standing on your two feet in the real world ...).

My best guess is that it may be smth to do not with Embody, but with the Occulus XR runtime - the Occulus runtime knows three settings for world coordinates: Relative, keep playspace orientation and "bedmode". If you changed your orientation after defining a playspace, but before firing up VaM, then VaM's worldspace coordinates can differ drastically depending on which setting is active in the Occulus runtime ...

An interesting idea - in my particular case, I'm only using a Vive, no Oculus - and am starting, and staying, seated the whole time. It does feel like a coordinate system confusion, so I like the idea, but I don 't know what would cause it - especially since it works on rare occasion and doesn't work the rest of the time.

 

[Sally Whitemane]

In many scene I have a problem with Embody (and the older 'improved PoV') in desktop mode:

When possesing a person I can not interact UI Elements like UIButtons.
It's like something invisible is blocking me.
The blue selection thing under the cursor isn't there and if I click the Atom gets selected, but not triggered.

To fix this I:

• enable [Select Offset Camera]
• [Configure Offset Camera...] > set [Clip distance] = 0.10 (default 0.01)

The same works for 'Improved PoV', except there is no checkbox for a camera offset.

Am I assuming correctly that 'Clip distance' is referring to the clipping distance of the near plane in a 3D viewing frustum?
If yes, I assume it is best to keep this value as small as possible to avoid not rendering close up object, right?

I've tested a few scenes to see what value is required to fix this:
-0.05 worked most of the time
-0.10 worked in all scenes so far

Would it be possible to set 'Clip distance' to 0.10 and enable 'Select Offset Camera' by default with an update?
Obviously I can work around this manually by fiddling with a scenes Plugin-settings every time, but why not improve it for everyone to avoid it.

If it would help I'd be willing to do a testrun with many PoV free scenes to find a 'good value' and then report back by findings.

Thank you for this wonderful Plugin!

 

[Acid Bubbles]

@Sally Whitemane I'm currently investigating a few recurring issues with Embody, and this was one of them. Technically the ray starts from the hand, so I fail to see how moving the camera would affect the ray. I'm sure there's a reason, but I need to investigate that first, since changing the camera offset will also change your relation to the camera rig. I might end up doing just that but not without figuring out _why_ it works first

 

[Sally Whitemane]

Okay I did not expect the ray coming from the hand in desktop mode. Makes sense for VR.
Panic Room for example is a scene where I have to set 'clip distance' to 0.10 minimum for clickable UIButtons.

 

[Acid Bubbles]

Of you have the problem on Desktop? This I never saw, that's good to know! I might have just misunderstood the previous feedback too lol, since the problem _I_ had was in VR!

 

[Acid Bubbles]

Acid Bubbles updated Embody with a new update entry:

Embody v1.5.0

- Hide eyebrows and eyelashes when "hide hair" is off during possession
- Option to keep the tongue during possession
- Improved person height measurements (slightly more reliable)
- Clearer error messages in cases where the model has no bones
- Hide currently possessed controls
- Triggers for hands enabled (asked by @XRWizard)
- Set "Keep physics hold strength" on all controls at once in Trackers Settings
- Fix: Default modules not selected without a default profile...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[vamurai]

Hey @Acid Bubbles !

Maybe I've missed it, but is there a way to enable/disable "Lock Camera Rotation" for the Passenger subsection of Embody using a trigger? I'm attempting to try and lock rotation during animation, and then unlock it.

Why, you may ask? Well, in the scene I am working on, both the male and female atoms move (sneak peak: I am attempting to have him carry her a short distance, which is a pain in the ass to animate!) Unfortunately, with the movement and rotation of the base atoms, along with their heads over a pretty significant distance, when the male reaches his destination the Embody/Passenger camera is off a by noticeable amount. It's bad enough that the only way to re-center it is to exit and re-enter Passenger. Buuuuuut..... I found that if I lock the camera rotation, I can keep the point of view exactly where it needs to be.

So, this leads me to wondering if there is a way to trigger the "Lock Camera Rotation" externally, so I can really quickly lock and unlock it once that few seconds of movement is done. I am open to other suggestions, of course!

 

[Acid Bubbles]

Hi @vamurai ! Changing Embody settings "on the fly" is always tricky, because a lot of it is initialized during the activation, but not always, and sometimes it requires more than one frame to fight against VaM doing it's own thing. There is however a trigger, "ReinitializeIfActive" I think, that should hopefully do what you need...

 

[vamurai]

Hi @vamurai ! Changing Embody settings "on the fly" is always tricky, because a lot of it is initialized during the activation, but not always, and sometimes it requires more than one frame to fight against VaM doing it's own thing. There is however a trigger, "ReinitializeIfActive" I think, that should hopefully do what you need...

I was worried you'd say that.

I tried that one, and I don't hate it, but there's a definite skip in animation when it reloads. I'll keep tinkering and see if I can come up with something else.

 

[Acid Bubbles]

Then the other option is to "fix" the problem I guess! Am I understanding correctly that when you move the head, the VR camera is off, meaning it's not looking/positioned where the head is anymore? If so I'd like to fix the root cause. If you can send the scene with the problem I'll take a look. If I misunderstood (because I'm not sure why this toggle actually helps) I'd like to understand better.

 

[vamurai]

I think you've got a correct sense of it.

I took a short clip of the part of the scene I'm talking about. (In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have moved the camera around so much, I was just trying to show that the position was off!) In order to get the view over there at all, I have to turn my mouse to follow her, which is sort of expected. My worry is that in VR (I don't have it, so I can't test it) you would also have to turn your head to the left to follow her, and the rest of the scene you would spend staring over your left shoulder. This is why I thought that locking and then unlocking the rotation briefly was the way to solve for it.

I can't move the camera around in this clip because I have locked the rotation to show where the position should be.

Here's a still shot from both videos showing what I mean, with a red center line showing where the female Atom ends up. The first is with no rotation lock, the second is with it enabled.

I can absolutely send over the in-progress scene if you would prefer that. Keep in mind that I'm not finished with it yet though, and this section takes place a couple of minutes into the scene. Because the animation has a lot of moving parts (hilarious!) arms and legs can get tangled trying to manually skip to this bit.

I suppose I could trim out everything and just send this part of the animation. Either way, let me know if you'd still like me to send it over, and I can wrap up a var and send it your way.

 

[Jocks3D]

When I use this plugin my arms and hands take the place of the model I'm possessing in addition to their head. Maybe I'm the only one, but my right hand is usually busy doing something else when I'm watching a sex scene, if you know what I mean (wink-wink). When I put the controller down the models right hand sometimes goes off in weird, bending directions that also effects their head and torso. Is there a setting I'm missing where I can just take possession of the head and let the models hands do their own thing?

While I'm on this topic it sure would be great if I could use one of the buttons on an Oculus controller to toggle between the POV of the model and the voyeur view. Maybe the left controller because, as I said, my right hand is busy.

 

[Siddharta]

First things first: Embody is absolut great! This is the way VR should always be!
Now a noob question: When i captured my male person atom with hand and hip Trackers, the Feets stick on the place the person is spamed. So while moving the person with the vive thumb stick, the feets don't follow the body. If i set left/right feet position controll to OFF, he feets are free. What i'm doing woring?

 

[Acid Bubbles]

Embody doesn't allow free movement. Walk does (an alpha plugin I'm working on "on the side") but it's not complete yet.

 

[Siddharta]

But why? Like said set feets to Off works (more or less). But this settings are reseted after save/load/whatever.

 

[Acid Bubbles]

Maybe I misunderstood. So, with Embody you use Vive trackers, and you control the head (headset), hands (controllers) and hip (vive tracker) right? If so, every other node that is "on" means it will stay in place. If you set them to "off", they will float around, following the physics forces. This should be saved and restored normally; however keep in mind that if you make changes during possession, after releasing possession it will reset the person to the initial possession pose (there's a setting for that). So, from what I read everything is "normal"?

 

[vamurai]

Embody doesn't allow free movement. Walk does (an alpha plugin I'm working on "on the side") but it's not complete yet.

Any special reason you're working on this?

 

[Acid Bubbles]

Yeah, I always found that while you possess a model, then turn around or move sideways, the legs sticking on the floor kind of break the immersion. Also, getting on the tip of your toes or crouching really doesn't work that well. So, the worst thing that can happen to me happened: I had an idea how I could approach this. And it worked, but not very well, so I got a few iterations and I'm now stuck lol... it's also useful for an animation to get movement without investing a ridiculous amount of time in making a walk animation.

I'm currently stuck mostly because I don't have enough time and energy to tackle a theoretically fairly simple problem. I need the foot to make a detour so the legs don't get tangled when moving in a diagonal or when turning quickly. But since it's dynamically calculated in real-time, I have a hard time finding a clean way to do this that won't look robotic.

 

[vamurai]

Yeah, I always found that while you possess a model, then turn around or move sideways, the legs sticking on the floor kind of break the immersion. Also, getting on the tip of your toes or crouching really doesn't work that well. So, the worst thing that can happen to me happened: I had an idea how I could approach this. And it worked, but not very well, so I got a few iterations and I'm now stuck lol... it's also useful for an animation to get movement without investing a ridiculous amount of time in making a walk animation.

I'm currently stuck mostly because I don't have enough time and energy to tackle a theoretically fairly simple problem. I need the foot to make a detour so the legs don't get tangled when moving in a diagonal or when turning quickly. But since it's dynamically calculated in real-time, I have a hard time finding a clean way to do this that won't look robotic.

I couldn't decide on a laugh or cry emoji for this, so I went with a thumbs up and an offer of, "best of luck." Partially solving a problem is sometimes worse than letting it be a problem forever.

 

[Acid Bubbles]

If you're curious... foot posing:

And walking:

 

[Siddharta]

Oh, i think that would do the job! Btw. the person atom control seetings (e.g. feets off) will not be saved in my scenes when embody is activated...hmm...have i missed a checkbox?

 

[Acid Bubbles]

@Siddy Embody will deactivate prior to saving, restoring the previous state. You can turn that feature off (and leave the model in the state it was before possession here): https://github.com/acidbubbles/vam-embody/wiki/Trackers#settings

But to be clear, Embody will not switch an Off node to On or vice versa, and it will not affect the save process in any way. If you believe it has an effect while Embody is not activated, there's probably something else going on (remove Embody to be sure)

 

[SpeedHighway]

@SpeedHighway thanks, I'll check it out when I can... this is really weird though :|

I stopped running into the issue for a while and then ran into it today. I'm pretty sure I can confirm that it's simply an issue with having a controller plugged in (in my case a PS4 controller) when VAM starts. Unplugging the controller doesn't work, alone, unless I restart VAM afterwords. So at least I don't have to deal with the swirly rotation anymore, I think. Just wanted to update you.