everlaster updated Naturalis with a new update entry:
v1.1.3 & documentation
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v1.1.3 & documentation
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- Thread starter everlaster
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tonyhawksp
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Is it possible to prevent automatic calibrate from being triggered when loading a scene? Because I use the posemanager plug-in, it will calibrate every time when it load an pose. This plug-in is really good, but I hope to have a fully manual control of the calibrate function, so that I can control the calibrate myself when changing pose or characters.
It sounds like PoseManager loads legacy poses which forces a restore on *every* plugin on the person atom, as if it was loading the entire person from preset. Nothing I can do about that specific issue unfortunately, however I do have plans to improve the calibration system to require fewer calibrations overall.
In the meantime, I would recommend using Pose Presets instead of legacy poses. Same goes for looks - use Appearance Presets instead of the legacy "Load Look" functionality.
As for calibration when loading a scene - as long as you save the scene with the calibration done (check if the button says "Calibration Pending"), it loads the calibration data directly from the scene save file when the scene is loaded and skips the t-pose and freeze.
RonBurgundy
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Does this plugin include the Doggystyle fix morph (https://hub.virtamate.com/resources/doggystyle-fix-morph.1160/ )
If not, how much trouble would it to incorporate something like that?
If not, how much trouble would it to incorporate something like that?
It does not. The current morphing system is not based around joint angles in a way that would support targeting specific poses with specific morphs (like in Joint Correct, for example). This is on the backlog
everlaster updated Naturalis with a new update entry:
v1.2-beta1
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v1.2-beta1
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Clocksmith
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As someone who primarily uses your (excellent) plug-in to improve realism out-of-the-box rarely changing from the default settings, can you tell me what to expect in terms of improvements from this release? I.e. one thing I think the plug-in has struggled with since the early days of TittyMagic is realistic small breast physics on some models. Does this improve that? It seems like it does from the description but I want to confirm that was one of your motivations for the update.
Do you have any suggestions on what to improve when it comes to small breasts? What are the issues you see with that, subjectively?
If anything, v1.2 is aiming to improve large breasts more than small breasts. The limitations with the morphs that the plugin applies as well as the scaling and positioning of hard colliders become more apparent with large breasts, and v1.2-beta1 greatly improves the colliders and makes them very consistent and accurate for any breast size. The limitations in VAM's soft physics also become more apparent with very large breasts because increasing the size doesn't increase the resolution of the skin mesh nor the number of soft physics joints and colliders, but that's outside the scope of v1.2.
In v1.2-beta1, the colliders are also more accurately placed for small breasts, but you're probably not going to notice any dramatic change to the overall behavior. It's an incremental improvement and only matters when it comes to collision, and even so the hard colliders are just a part of the equation (fat colliders being the other part).
However, the morphing system is going to receive an overhaul as well, and I'm in the process of collaborating with a 3d modeler to create improved pose morphs. This overhaul will affect all breast sizes and shapes, but it remains to be seen how the end result will differ from the current version.
Clocksmith
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I see. Well that still sounds like a nice upgrade. I'll see how this affects Looks with large breasts then. Thanks for explaining.
This may be an issue with this particular Look's mesh but I find that Kinx appears receive much heavier looking breasts than are natural with the plug-in. They seem to hang like small versions of large breasts as opposed to mostly staying perky with a little movement as I would expect them to. I've noticed the issue to a lesser extent on other small breast models.
Try setting the Up/Down Angle Target to 5.00 and set the up/down angle target's gravity multiplier sliders to 0. Doing this ensures that angle parameter is the same as with VAM's default breast physics, and should mostly remove the droop that the plugin applies in the case of small breasts. v1.2 will have a proper way of dealing with the breast shape changing due to the physics applied by the plugin.
I'm also looking into improving collision physics and soft mesh deformation, it'll apply to all breast sizes and shapes. Proof of concept video: https://x.com/everlasterVR/status/1717917188672176516
Clocksmith
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Awesome. I'll try that. Thanks for your continued work and support on this.
everlaster updated Naturalis with a new update entry:
v1.2-beta2
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v1.2-beta2
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everlaster updated Naturalis with a new update entry:
v1.2-beta3
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v1.2-beta3
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Clocksmith
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So I finally had a chance to try your settings. Here are some results for reference.
Before applying the plug-in, Kinx has natural looking small breasts:
After applying, they droop harshly as if they are bigger and heavier than they actually are. Adding the up/down and gravity settings you suggested raises the breasts higher but doesn't address the primary problem: they still have that unrealistic droop indentation on the outer sides of the breasts:
To be honest, I think they should have stayed exactly the same but had the new physics applied. And this is precisely what happens with other Looks with small breasts that I have tried with Naturalis TittyMagic. But for some reason hers don't. Maybe it is something about the mesh or the Look settings that is adding something that interferes with TittyMagic or not applying something TittyMagic depends on.
This is all using the free v1.1.3, btw. I haven't upgraded to the new version since you said it wouldn't have an affect on this issue.
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@Clocksmith The next beta will have a near perfect solution to the droop issue, you'll be able to rotate the breast using a morph that closely mimics the way that the target angle applies rotation. This allows the plugin to apply its physics changes while maintaining the shape.
Clocksmith
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Looking forward to the updates. I'm sure they will improve things even more.
However, in the meantime, I actually found a solution that fixes the primary problem. As I suspected, something was indeed interfering with TittyMagic.
I noticed Jackaroo's Aerith and Kim Possible also had the exact same unrealistic indentations, as if their small breasts were filled with lead. But this time, TittyMagic wasn't even enabled yet.
So I searched and turned off F Breast Physics 2 > Soft Physics Enabled and the problem disappeared. I then tried the same thing on Kinx and the issues with TittyMagic went away. Here are the before and after with steps:
1. Disable Plugins > Naturalis > TittyMagic if it is enabled
2. Disable F Breast Physics 2 > Soft Physics Enabled
3. (Re)enable TittyMagic
Notice the unrealistic heaviness indentations have disappeared.
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@Clocksmith I think I've seen that before once or twice. The soft physics can somehow get "stuck" like that, and I have no idea what's actually causing it.
Does the issue come back if you enable soft physics again (via the plugin UI)?
What if, instead of disabling the plugin and then disabling the soft physics in F Breast Physics 2 and enabling the plugin again, you instead just disable soft physics from the plugin UI? Does the issue go away then?
Does the issue come back if you enable soft physics again (via the plugin UI)?
What if, instead of disabling the plugin and then disabling the soft physics in F Breast Physics 2 and enabling the plugin again, you instead just disable soft physics from the plugin UI? Does the issue go away then?
Clocksmith
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Yes, it does. Exactly like before. This is regardless of the method I use to disable it. After turning it back on, TittyMagic requires calibration, after which it restores the overly heavy breast look.
Strangely, the problem stays if I instead leave Soft Physics Enabled on in F Breast Physics 2 then disable it in TittyMagic. The difference is, it is less pronounced than if Breast Soft Physics Enabled is fully on.
Here is what the breasts look like if I disable it in F Breast Physics 2 first and then enable TittyMagic. They are pretty much perfect:
But here is what it looks like if I don't disable it first and then disable Breast Soft Physics Enabled directly from TittyMagic. Notice an indent returns, though less pronounced:
So, Breast Soft Physics Enabled definitely needs to stay off to get good results with her. And the best results are if they are turned off in Breast Physics 2 before enabling TittyMagic.
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@Clocksmith It seems like a collider issue. I tested with the Kim Possible model, and although I didn't see any problem at default soft physics settings, when I went into F Breast Physics 2 and increased fat collider radius (turning off auto collider radius first), the upper outer area started to indent. Really weird behavior. When I disabled collision on the atom, the issue went away. The fat colliders don't collide with each other, so the only explanation I can think of is that increasing the fat collider size causes them to bump into other colliders in the body (chest colliders, shoulder colliders etc.), which then push back on the fat colliders, and since the fat colliders are attached to rigidbodies in the soft physics mesh, those rigidbodies move and distort the mesh.
To use soft physics without this issue, you could try reducing the fat collider radius outer multiplier or the overall offset in the plugin's Physics tab -> Fat Collider Radius window. Alternatively you could use Collider Editor to reduce the radiuses of adjacent AutoColliders to prevent the fat colliders from bumping into them.
To use soft physics without this issue, you could try reducing the fat collider radius outer multiplier or the overall offset in the plugin's Physics tab -> Fat Collider Radius window. Alternatively you could use Collider Editor to reduce the radiuses of adjacent AutoColliders to prevent the fat colliders from bumping into them.
Clocksmith
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I tried that. Unfortunately the indent still doesn't go away.
However, I think you have discovered the underlying issue being with colliision. I had suspected the same. This issue only seems to occur when I have models in a specific mounting cowgirl pose with the arms close to (but nowhere near touching) the breasts. This pose is ironically the default starting pose I have for a cowgirl scene I have been working on for several months, which is why I encounter this issue so often:
Something about the arms seems to be colliding with the breasts. I noticed the same thing when I picked up Lilith yesterday. She has indentations even with TittyMagic, Soft Breast Physics, and Fat Colliders turned off:
Turning off collision looks even worse and and the indentations are still there:
However, even if I turn everything back on (Collision, Soft Breast Physics, TittyMagic, Fat Colliders) and let the scene progress to a point where her arms aren't squeezing close together with her breasts slightly in front of them, all the issues go away:
The same with Kinx:
So this is clearly some kind of weird collision between the arms and the breasts in the base VAM that is sometimes exacerbated by TittyMagic (in the case of Kinx) but is sometimes there for Looks without anything involved, including collision (in the case of Lilith).
So my ultimate short term solution seems to be just getting those arms further away in the starting poses of the scene. Longterm, it seems something needs to be adjusted with base VAM and the way arms collide with breasts in some Looks.
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Clocksmith
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That didn't work at all. The colliders were still a problem. So I added Acid Bubbles' Collider Editor to the plugins and started investigating.
Sure enough, Kinx had massively oversized Right arm > rShldr colliders:
Setting Auto Sync Symmetry then lowering the radius and Center.Z on
Right arm >
- rShldr
- rShldr/Collider1
- rShldr/Collider2
(which did the same on Left arm simultaneously) completely fixed the issue:
So turns out the whole time this was just a massive collider setup failure on the part of the Look creators.
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@Clocksmith Nice. As soon as I started reading your latest posts I thought the arm colliders are probably to blame. However this still doesn't explain why Lilith had an issue even after disabling collision on the atom?