VaM 1.x DLSS5, differences and benefits

Gaming_2024 said:

We all know DLSS5 is out and people are coming addicted to it. My question is: Is DLSS5 really worth it using it with VAM? If so what's the difference when using it with Vam? and without it? Benefits?

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As of now, I think the only major benefit is to take some cool looking screenshots, but imo it's virtually impossible to have acceptable framerate for proper gameplay, nevermind VR. Performance dips heavily even with good hardware.

Geraldo said:

As of now, I think the only major benefit is to take some cool looking screenshots, but imo it's virtually impossible to have acceptable framerate for proper gameplay, nevermind VR. Performance dips heavily even with good hardware.

Click to expand...

Yeah true! I know it has major fps drops.

Geraldo said:

As of now, I think the only major benefit is to take some cool looking screenshots, but imo it's virtually impossible to have acceptable framerate for proper gameplay, nevermind VR. Performance dips heavily even with good hardware.

Click to expand...

VR is no problem with UncleBurrito's version on a Ryzen 7 9800X3D & RTX 5090. Thanks to upscaling you don't even need that kind of hardware i would guess (?).

Electric E-Boy said:

VR is no problem with UncleBurrito's version on a Ryzen 7 9800X3D & RTX 5090. Thanks to upscaling you don't even need that kind of hardware i would guess (?).

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But what are the benefits of playing Vam with DLSS5? Is there much of a difference?

Gaming_2024 said:

But what are the benefits of playing Vam with DLSS5? Is there much of a difference?

Click to expand...

Didn't you notice the DLSS5 screenshots so far? The differences are very obvious i think. You can check out the DLSS5 albums to compare and decide for yourself:

It may be a matter of taste at the end of the day, but i guess many people would say it increases the realism of scenes.


The following image is a good example, although it is important to notice that EvilBox's environments are great even without DLSS5:


Also this:

Electric E-Boy said:

Didn't you notice the DLSS5 screenshots so far? The differences are very obvious i think. You can check out the DLSS5 albums to compare and decide for yourself:

DLSS5

Content enhanced using a DLSS5 plugin (runtime AI)

hub.virtamate.com

It may be a matter of taste at the end of the day, but i guess many people would say it increases the realism of scenes.


The following image is a good example, although it is important to notice that EvilBox's environments are great even without DLSS5:

1.jpg

hard to believe that this vam

hub.virtamate.com

Also this:

Xephne_DLSS5_03.png

Dress by @[34197:@maru01]

hub.virtamate.com

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Oh wow!!!! This is sooo good it really dose make a difference! Thankyou! HOw do i set up DLSS5? apologies for the dumb question

Gaming_2024 said:

We all know DLSS5 is out and people are coming addicted to it. My question is: Is DLSS5 really worth it using it with VAM? If so what's the difference when using it with Vam? and without it? Benefits?

Click to expand...

I'm no expert, but I think the difference is drastic. It will tank your fps a little, but for screenshots it's amazing. So pro's= better graphics. Cons= less fps.

Gaming_2024 said:

Oh wow!!!! This is sooo good it really dose make a difference! Thankyou! HOw do i set up DLSS5? apologies for the dumb question

Click to expand...

Yeah, but don't forget that the base "quality" of the scene/assets/looks + tweaking is important to get such awesome end results. EvilBox's environment looks already awesome without it, because his lighting is that good. Out of the box it is still impressive imho.

There is a big discussion about the topic and iirc guides and tutorials:

There is also a paid plugin by UncleBurrito via patreon.

Gaming_2024 said:

Oh wow!!!! This is sooo good it really dose make a difference! Thankyou! HOw do i set up DLSS5? apologies for the dumb question

Click to expand...

You want uncle burritos plugin, the instructions are in his discord and his plugin page here on the hub, it's only $5, so hook the dude up so he can continue to hook us up! All you do is extract two folders into the vam directory and thats it. Run a scene Vam and hit f10 to open the DLSS UI.

BillTheButcher said:

You want uncle burritos plugin, the instructions are in his discord and his plugin page here on the hub, it's only $5, so hook the dude up so he can continue to hook us up! All you do is extract two folders into the vam directory and thats it. Run a scene Vam and hit f10 to open the DLSS UI.

Click to expand...

Ive set but wildlife with dlss5. is it the same process to set up for Vam?

Gaming_2024 said:

Ive set but wildlife with dlss5. is it the same process to set up for Vam?

Click to expand...

Im not sure it's the first time I have ever added it to anything, Since you have basic computer knowledge it should not be too hard for you. All I did was download two zip files and extracted them into vam like I said in my other reply.

BillTheButcher said:

Im not sure it's the first time I have ever added it to anything, Since you have basic computer knowledge it should not be too hard for you. All I did was download two zip files and extracted them into vam like I said in my other reply.

Click to expand...

cheers thankyou!

Please name your threads properly "dlss5" is not a proper thread name. Thank you.

I'd really like to know what kind of FPS people claiming "it's perfectly fine in VR" pull off, 'coz we just have the statement without ever having the average framerate in the headset.

If you want just information/facts @Gaming_2024 (in a random fashion) :

• 1, first and foremost, we're talking about Neural Rendering, not "DLSS5". DLSS 5 is still the upscaling technology and works perfectly without NR.
• So about Neural Rendering:
  • It kills between 50 to 65% of your framerate depending on the GPU
  • it makes GPU top it's consumption limits and even go above them, resulting in some people reporting dead GPU/connectors ( ex: https://www.techpowerup.com/352412/...ed-rtx-5090-connector-power-shoots-past-600-w ) (( let's not consider this a generality, just having the information is important ))
  • It brings a very nice ambiant occlusion for both characters and enviros
  • It changes contrast overall, pretty much a heavy tone mapper / LUT on the whole, differently depending on your settings, but always there
  • It generates and changes faces drastically with a massive AI slop bias ( lifting up some aspects, toning down others )
  • It can improve proper shots to scratch the 1/2% needed to look more photorealistic. But it won't make a bad scene/lighting look good (the dlss5 channel on the discord is a very good place to witness that effect).
  • It can do it's job on somewhat "average lit" scenes... very very stylized scenes end up being somewhat very similar to the original (because it probably has not enough data to work with them).
  • Stability of the algorithm is quite jarring in half the situations, with AO changing drastically depending on your orientation. Especially at close range. We'd need to see the production version to see if it is fixed or not. ( it is very obvious with flashing lights and massive particle systems going between you the player and what you're looking at )

So if we're talking about gaming in general, which covers VAM, my opinion on this:

We (as gamers and/or gamedevs) want techs that brings our games to new heights keeping a decent framerate. Bringing NR which is, overall, an overhyped Reshade filter if we exclude the AO pass and the AI slop factor for characters... making any of your game run at half its original framerate if not less and multiplying by 2 your GPU consumption... is not the kind of tech we're asking for, for a proper gaming experience.

The industry already has trouble running anything that has a bit of RTAO and some reflections. Putting that on top, and locking it behind a specific generation of GPU makes this tech an abysmal tool to use as a way to improve your game. If we can argue that it is a cool tool for screenshots, it makes it irrelevant as most people won't ever be able to run it in game.

And finally, "being able to run it" is not even the prime subject. Every gamer I know, especially PC players, have synced monitors... and pray on the altar of the great "120/144hz" god. And will not sacrifice that sort of perfs for a bit of AO and fancy face slop.

As mentionned in the other thread, maybe fun once a month to fantasize on your VAM girl. Beyond that, that stuff is not ready for production.

hazmhox said:

I'd really like to know what kind of FPS people claiming "it's perfectly fine in VR" pull off, 'coz we just have the statement without ever having the average framerate in the headset.

If you want just information/facts @Gaming_2024 (in a random fashion) :

• 1, first and foremost, we're talking about Neural Rendering, not "DLSS5". DLSS 5 is still the upscaling technology and works perfectly without NR.
• So about Neural Rendering:
  • It kills between 50 to 65% of your framerate depending on the GPU
  • it makes GPU top it's consumption limits and even go above them, resulting in some people reporting dead GPU/connectors ( ex: https://www.techpowerup.com/352412/...ed-rtx-5090-connector-power-shoots-past-600-w ) (( let's not consider this a generality, just having the information is important ))
  • It brings a very nice ambiant occlusion for both characters and enviros
  • It changes contrast overall, pretty much a heavy tone mapper / LUT on the whole, differently depending on your settings, but always there
  • It generates and changes faces drastically with a massive AI slop bias ( lifting up some aspects, toning down others )
  • It can improve proper shots to scratch the 1/2% needed to look more photorealistic. But it won't make a bad scene/lighting look good (the dlss5 channel on the discord is a very good place to witness that effect).
  • It can do it's job on somewhat "average lit" scenes... very very stylized scenes end up being somewhat very similar to the original (because it probably has not enough data to work with them).
  • Stability of the algorithm is quite jarring in half the situations, with AO changing drastically depending on your orientation. Especially at close range. We'd need to see the production version to see if it is fixed or not. ( it is very obvious with flashing lights and massive particle systems going between you the player and what you're looking at )

So if we're talking about gaming in general, which covers VAM, my opinion on this:

We (as gamers and/or gamedevs) want techs that brings our games to new heights keeping a decent framerate. Bringing NR which is, overall, an overhyped Reshade filter if we exclude the AO pass and the AI slop factor for characters... making any of your game run at half its original framerate if not less and multiplying by 2 your GPU consumption... is not the kind of tech we're asking for, for a proper gaming experience.

The industry already has trouble running anything that has a bit of RTAO and some reflections. Putting that on top, and locking it behind a specific generation of GPU makes this tech an abysmal tool to use as a way to improve your game. If we can argue that it is a cool tool for screenshots, it makes it irrelevant as most people won't ever be able to run it in game.

And finally, "being able to run it" is not even the prime subject. Every gamer I know, especially PC players, have synced monitors... and pray on the altar of the great "120/144hz" god. And will not sacrifice that sort of perfs for a bit of AO and fancy face slop.

As mentionned in the other thread, maybe fun once a month to fantasize on your VAM girl. Beyond that, that stuff is not ready for production.

Click to expand...

Please don't take this the wrong way but you're quite the negative Nancy. you don't speak for me as "we gamers" or infact the majority of other replies in the other dlss topic. ill embrace anything that brings me joy in this sandbox and if someone says its perfectly fine for them in vr then who are you to argue against their experience and denigrate that experience with your opinion as if it's the end of the discussion. let people enjoy what they are doing.

hazmhox said:

I'd really like to know what kind of FPS people claiming "it's perfectly fine in VR" pull off, 'coz we just have the statement without ever having the average framerate in the headset.

If you want just information/facts @Gaming_2024 (in a random fashion) :

• 1, first and foremost, we're talking about Neural Rendering, not "DLSS5". DLSS 5 is still the upscaling technology and works perfectly without NR.
• So about Neural Rendering:
  • It kills between 50 to 65% of your framerate depending on the GPU
  • it makes GPU top it's consumption limits and even go above them, resulting in some people reporting dead GPU/connectors ( ex: https://www.techpowerup.com/352412/...ed-rtx-5090-connector-power-shoots-past-600-w ) (( let's not consider this a generality, just having the information is important ))
  • It brings a very nice ambiant occlusion for both characters and enviros
  • It changes contrast overall, pretty much a heavy tone mapper / LUT on the whole, differently depending on your settings, but always there
  • It generates and changes faces drastically with a massive AI slop bias ( lifting up some aspects, toning down others )
  • It can improve proper shots to scratch the 1/2% needed to look more photorealistic. But it won't make a bad scene/lighting look good (the dlss5 channel on the discord is a very good place to witness that effect).
  • It can do it's job on somewhat "average lit" scenes... very very stylized scenes end up being somewhat very similar to the original (because it probably has not enough data to work with them).
  • Stability of the algorithm is quite jarring in half the situations, with AO changing drastically depending on your orientation. Especially at close range. We'd need to see the production version to see if it is fixed or not. ( it is very obvious with flashing lights and massive particle systems going between you the player and what you're looking at )

So if we're talking about gaming in general, which covers VAM, my opinion on this:

We (as gamers and/or gamedevs) want techs that brings our games to new heights keeping a decent framerate. Bringing NR which is, overall, an overhyped Reshade filter if we exclude the AO pass and the AI slop factor for characters... making any of your game run at half its original framerate if not less and multiplying by 2 your GPU consumption... is not the kind of tech we're asking for, for a proper gaming experience.

The industry already has trouble running anything that has a bit of RTAO and some reflections. Putting that on top, and locking it behind a specific generation of GPU makes this tech an abysmal tool to use as a way to improve your game. If we can argue that it is a cool tool for screenshots, it makes it irrelevant as most people won't ever be able to run it in game.

And finally, "being able to run it" is not even the prime subject. Every gamer I know, especially PC players, have synced monitors... and pray on the altar of the great "120/144hz" god. And will not sacrifice that sort of perfs for a bit of AO and fancy face slop.

As mentionned in the other thread, maybe fun once a month to fantasize on your VAM girl. Beyond that, that stuff is not ready for production.

Click to expand...

I don't want to come off as being mean!, Have you tried the plugin? I feel like you're coping with this extremely badly. This is actually extremely good for us consumers and this can and will be further optimized, As for the VR, Yeah, you can forget about that because most of the general public don't have $5000 GPU's, it is playable in the default scene right now on ultra performance mode in VR. Just give it time it will get better. At this point I have no intention on buying VAM2 when my PC already struggles with VAM, As long as they keep releasing stuff like this I am pretty content.

rokoc said:

Please don't take this the wrong way but you're quite the negative Nancy. you don't speak for me as "we gamers" or infact the majority of other replies in the other dlss topic. ill embrace anything that brings me joy in this sandbox and if someone says its perfectly fine for them in vr then who are you to argue against their experience and denigrate that experience with your opinion as if it's the end of the discussion. let people enjoy what they are doing.

Click to expand...

You enjoying something does not make facts disappear nor invalidates them. Enjoy what you want, however you want. You're quite the sensitive Nancy to feel like people should agree with you on a GPU tech.

BillTheButcher said:

I don't want to come off as being mean!, Have you tried the plugin? I feel like you're coping with this extremely badly. This is actually extremely good for us consumers and this can and will be further optimized, As for the VR, Yeah, you can forget about that because most of the general public don't have $5000 GPU's, it is playable in the default scene right now on ultra performance mode in VR. Just give it time it will get better. At this point I have no intention on buying VAM2 when my PC already struggles with VAM, As long as they keep releasing stuff like this I am pretty content.

Click to expand...

You're feeling wrong. Do you really think I would give such a detailed set of information and actual technical facts without having tested the tech?
This is nowhere near close to "good for us consumers", nor production ready. This is a proprietary tech locked behind a specific generation when we know as modders/devs that it could be available for the whole 20/30 and 40 gen... and would probably require months if not several years of improvements or raw GPU power to be even remotely usable for a standard game.

You are free to have your opinion on the matter, or enjoy that thing. But it won't make the actual reality go away.

Since we can't have a proper conversation and anytime someone tends to bring facts on the tech, we end up in the "me liky so you wrongy" territory. This will be my last interaction on the subject.

hazmhox said:

You enjoying something does not make facts disappear nor invalidates them. Enjoy what you want, however you want. You're quite the sensitive Nancy to feel like people should agree with you on a GPU tech.




You're feeling wrong. Do you really think I would give such a detailed set of information and actual technical facts without having tested the tech?
This is nowhere near close to "good for us consumers", nor production ready. This is a proprietary tech locked behind a specific generation when we know as modders/devs that it could be available for the whole 20/30 and 40 gen... and would probably require months if not several years of improvements or raw GPU power to be even remotely usable for a standard game.

You are free to have your opinion on the matter, or enjoy that thing. But it won't make the actual reality go away.

Since we can't have a proper conversation and anytime someone tends to bring facts on the tech, we end up in the "me liky so you wrongy" territory. This will be my last interaction on the subject.

Click to expand...

What do you mean locked behind certain gens? Uncle burritos plugin works for every RTX GPU. Do you know coping is trying to validate something you don't like?

Guys, chill tf out please if you want to use DLSS5, then do, if not, then don't.

hazmhox said:

You enjoying something does not make facts disappear nor invalidates them. Enjoy what you want, however you want. You're quite the sensitive Nancy to feel like people should agree with you on a GPU tech.




You're feeling wrong. Do you really think I would give such a detailed set of information and actual technical facts without having tested the tech?
This is nowhere near close to "good for us consumers", nor production ready. This is a proprietary tech locked behind a specific generation when we know as modders/devs that it could be available for the whole 20/30 and 40 gen... and would probably require months if not several years of improvements or raw GPU power to be even remotely usable for a standard game.

You are free to have your opinion on the matter, or enjoy that thing. But it won't make the actual reality go away.

Since we can't have a proper conversation and anytime someone tends to bring facts on the tech, we end up in the "me liky so you wrongy" territory. This will be my last interaction on the subject.

Click to expand...

Wow, just, wow. these are not comments befitting a moderator. you're telling everyone they are wrong for embracing a new tech.

I tried to be polite but I actually find you rather ignorant. everyone's having a "discussion" except you. wind your neck in pal. you've lowered the tone of this entire discussion

hazmhox said:

I'd really like to know what kind of FPS people claiming "it's perfectly fine in VR" pull off, 'coz we just have the statement without ever having the average framerate in the headset.

Click to expand...

Constant 60+ FPS in VR with 2 atoms in CuddleMocaps cruise scene for example, feels smooth to me. I haven't optimize anything so far and also didn't change my previous max quality VaM settings. I would never say it is "perfectly fine", just that it isn't a problem vs "impossible" as mentioned before, just wanted to give a second experience/opinion.

While some may feel strongly one way or the other about the topic of DLSS5, please keep your posts civil and courteous. It is ok to disagree. Let's not bash each other over the head with our opinions.

I have a RTX 3090 and tried it when Burrito was validating support for the 3000 series. So those are my results and thoughts on the NR aspect, based on testing on my hardware:

Pros:
- It gives the character, scene and clothes a really good AO effect.
- It helps stabilize ambient lights in darker scenes.
- It gives more details on clothes.
- Shadows in general are smoother (outside of AO).

Cons:
- It costs too much FPS.
- My GPU went hot. Even when rendering in Blender it didn't became that hot, and luckily i have a over-spec PSU. Because of that I'll avoid using in the future.
- It makes people look old, and/or gives then a 'unhealthy' skin. Lower settings don't give back FPS.
- It can add uncanny details to the face and lose artistic intent.
- You can't 'render' it due to the nature of how it works, so it's only good for screenshots.


So, in general, i can see cases where it will add details and 'prettify' a frame but the tradeoffs seem very high. Although my main VAM use is with anthros, in which the effect doesn't work at all on the skin besides AO, i tried some human looks that i find pretty or detailed, and sadly they all looked worse, with different settings. My bar for 3D humans is very high (hence why i don't like most, with or without DLSS) and i can feel the uncanny valley with some details easily. The NR increases this by making parts of the model too detailed, and so the character becomes visually unbalanced. I still choose the ones i found to be the most balanced i could remember for this test, not very realistic but not uncanny.

So all this was mostly a technical view of the tool as a user, and now there's the artistic intent and value of it that i can talk as a general 3d creator.
In my opinion this downplays a lot the style and intent people put on the looks, but users will play what they think is good and in reality they may not care at all. Different people likes different things. But when creators start using it to 'enhance' their creators i see something a bit different. This can (not only on VAM but wherever this is implemented) causes a wave of standartization of styles that revolves around what NR does best, forcing (but many will go willingly) artists to not add as many details or not pursue a specific artistic style so it plays better with NR for the user. I find this worrying, and you can see that example in other areas of tech, content and design. While i can see examples of it being applied and looking good, overall it's a wave of very boring or uncanny looking characters, in my opinion. The best uses i saw for it where in places where there's no person present in the scene, like BeamNG.

If you could use it as a fancy post processing tool instead of a character overall with multiple NR passes, i think we might see more pleasing results and less aversion towards it.

hazmhox said:

I'd really like to know what kind of FPS people claiming "it's perfectly fine in VR" pull off, 'coz we just have the statement without ever having the average framerate in the headset.

If you want just information/facts @Gaming_2024 (in a random fashion) :

• 1, first and foremost, we're talking about Neural Rendering, not "DLSS5". DLSS 5 is still the upscaling technology and works perfectly without NR.
• So about Neural Rendering:
  • It kills between 50 to 65% of your framerate depending on the GPU
  • it makes GPU top it's consumption limits and even go above them, resulting in some people reporting dead GPU/connectors ( ex: https://www.techpowerup.com/352412/...ed-rtx-5090-connector-power-shoots-past-600-w ) (( let's not consider this a generality, just having the information is important ))
  • It brings a very nice ambiant occlusion for both characters and enviros
  • It changes contrast overall, pretty much a heavy tone mapper / LUT on the whole, differently depending on your settings, but always there
  • It generates and changes faces drastically with a massive AI slop bias ( lifting up some aspects, toning down others )
  • It can improve proper shots to scratch the 1/2% needed to look more photorealistic. But it won't make a bad scene/lighting look good (the dlss5 channel on the discord is a very good place to witness that effect).
  • It can do it's job on somewhat "average lit" scenes... very very stylized scenes end up being somewhat very similar to the original (because it probably has not enough data to work with them).
  • Stability of the algorithm is quite jarring in half the situations, with AO changing drastically depending on your orientation. Especially at close range. We'd need to see the production version to see if it is fixed or not. ( it is very obvious with flashing lights and massive particle systems going between you the player and what you're looking at )

So if we're talking about gaming in general, which covers VAM, my opinion on this:

We (as gamers and/or gamedevs) want techs that brings our games to new heights keeping a decent framerate. Bringing NR which is, overall, an overhyped Reshade filter if we exclude the AO pass and the AI slop factor for characters... making any of your game run at half its original framerate if not less and multiplying by 2 your GPU consumption... is not the kind of tech we're asking for, for a proper gaming experience.

The industry already has trouble running anything that has a bit of RTAO and some reflections. Putting that on top, and locking it behind a specific generation of GPU makes this tech an abysmal tool to use as a way to improve your game. If we can argue that it is a cool tool for screenshots, it makes it irrelevant as most people won't ever be able to run it in game.

And finally, "being able to run it" is not even the prime subject. Every gamer I know, especially PC players, have synced monitors... and pray on the altar of the great "120/144hz" god. And will not sacrifice that sort of perfs for a bit of AO and fancy face slop.

As mentionned in the other thread, maybe fun once a month to fantasize on your VAM girl. Beyond that, that stuff is not ready for production.

Click to expand...

Well said. You've pointed out something many people haven't said aloud. This is what I meant by Nvidia's deception,

perhaps it's their strategy to inflate prices for their next-generation 60-series graphics cards.

That's why I ultimately chose the RX 9070 XT. To be honest, I preferred the 5070 Ti or 5080.

Back then, the price difference between the 9070 XT and 5070 Ti was only $150-200,b ut now Nvidia's inflated prices make buying it completely unacceptable.

I see the DLSS 5 news everywhere online,that's the terrifying power of Nvidia's sales strategy.

btw newest on the net is twin GPU to run the DLSS5, Oh my gosh!

Have a nice day