Question VR vs Desktop: What is the desktop community missing out on?

[Johninvr]

what a great community!

Bottom Line Up Front: For the VR users, what is your experience like comparative to desktop?

For instance: does VAM support 6DoF? With a Quest 2 are you able to create a play area and freely walk about, and this translates to your position in VAM? Even a possessed Atom?

Does the Quest 2 latest update that tracks hand movement function like a leap motion sensor and work in VAM? Does VAM track individual finger motion or only the hands? Essentially, can you use VAM mostly independent of VR controllers now?

I ask all this because only a few years ago I used VR, but only with 3DoF. I’ve been using VAM for about 2 years now but only with desktop as my computer just isn’t up to speed for VR.
Then a work friend let me try his Quest 2 (not for VAM, just basic games) I was floored! I had no idea the tech had advanced so rapidly in a few years. I was no longer a single spot that could just passively look around; now I could physically walk, sit, lay down and my avatar in VR would do the exact same. Is all this possible in VAM? If so, why would you ever leave the house?

with VR in VAM are you able to physically walk around in your play area and your character does so in VAM, without the need to use a D-pad? Can you stand over/under Atoms and interact with your hands?

what a game changer!!! Please let me know what you all think and experience, as I am about to go all in on a new gaming PC and Quest 2 if all this is possible. I have no idea what I’m missing out on and I think it’s probably aLOT.

 

[supacavalier]

Yes. I have a Quest 2 and, even while possessing an atom, can freely move around a "play" area. Also, if you do get a Quest 2, don't worry about the cable. Airlink quality and performance is sooo much better than the cable. As for not ever leaving the house, if I knew how to use VAM better (just started when I got my Quest 2 a few months ago) I probably wouldn't lol.

 

[supacavalier]

Oh, and for the hand tracking, that does not work in VAM. I don't think there are any plans to support it either, and if there are, wouldn't be until "v2". I should also mention that when you do possess a person atom in VAM, your feet will be dangling around since AFAIK there's no way to track that in VAM with a Quest 2, which, for me, renders it almost useless since moving a person around is an enormous pain in the ass...

 

[Johninvr]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Supacavalier! Since the hand tracking doesn’t work, can you use the two hand controllers like hands while in VR? Can you grab and manipulate things, like arms, legs, etc?

 

[supacavalier]

Yep! It's not a great experience tho, but again, if you know what you're doing in VAM, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Fferrett]

With a Quest 2, Improved POV and Passenger, some of the experiences can be considered religious. You'll get better FPS and resolution out of a non VR display, but its certainly not the same. I'll agree that with the correct WiFi setup the Airlink is good if not better than cabled Quest 2 -- but the stress is on correct.
I still use headphones for full immersion.

 

[T_bob]

Wow, two years using desktop, you are really missing out. With the latest update on Q2 the vr hands work but you cannot use any menu's or 'click' anything. You can touch and grab the model to move the body parts with VR hands just the same as you can the contollers. With VR hands enabled you can just pick up the controllers and access the menu's and move around -- then put the controllers down and just use your VR hands to touch and grab. Not brilliant but they do work.

 

[TToby]

IMHO: VR vs desktop is almost like being there vs viewing a video clip.
Though not always perfect - VaM is made for VR! In VR it shows its true potential.
Personally, I could never go back.

 

[Johninvr]

Wow, two years using desktop, you are really missing out. With the latest update on Q2 the vr hands work but you cannot use any menu's or 'click' anything. You can touch and grab the model to move the body parts with VR hands just the same as you can the contollers. With VR hands enabled you can just pick up the controllers and access the menu's and move around -- then put the controllers down and just use your VR hands to touch and grab. Not brilliant but they do work.

This is exactly what I was hoping for! I’m not concerned with using a controller to navigate menu’s. The biggest question I had was with a Q2 could I walk around a model, sit and stand around a model and manipulate the model with the Q2 hand tracking update. It sounds like all of this is doable from what you are saying and I haven’t been this excited for a video game since Super Nintendo waaaay back in the day.

Thanks you guys! Now my next decision is do I buy an older GTX 1080ti and throw it in the machine I have now, or wait another month or two and finance a full on, top of the line machine for years to come. Decisions decisions.

Thanks again for all the replies, I knew I was missing out on Desktop but I had no idea how much.

 

[Fferrett]

GTX 1080ti??? I just got my RTX4080ti and can't believe the fapping fps. Sure it cost me $10k to have someone steal it form their labs in Santa Clara and driver support isn't perfect yet, but is it ever? They've really done it well to have breached the sense of smell triggered by photons. Emily is just sweeter with her cherry scented lipstick and a hint of floral perfume. Now I just need a set of haptic gloves.

 

[Johninvr]

A 1080ti will do the job in VR with a decent cpu. I would just wait a month or two and get an even better rig though mate.

I’ve got an older system compared to most: an Intel HD graphics 630 (which is essentially not having a GPU lol) an intel i5 7500 cpu, 16 GB RAM. Is this worth upgrading the GPU, or is the CPU and ram still so dated that I should just start over with a new system?

I don’t need to have the fastest system possible, but something that I can comfortably enjoy VAM in VR with a couple of atoms, a couple of lights and maybe an animation or two. Hopefully an environment as well.

what are your recommendations? If I bought a GPU only I would only want to spend about 500 US, but if I was upgrading to a whole new system I could MAX spend about 2,000 USD.

are the current overpriced GPUs that great, or are they going to be eclipsed by the next gen coming out? If I bought a new rig for about 2k is it going to be obsolete within a couple years?

Please let me know what your recommendations are for a decent mid grade VR capable system with regards to GPU, CPU, RAM and anything I’m overlooking.

Thanks, you guys are the best!!!

 

[Johninvr]

Dude you could get a pretty beasty pc with 1.5 grand. I would get a pc built for me for 1.5 grand without the gpu and then look for a second hand 1080ti if you want one. some of the newest newest Nvidia and AMD Cards are around 500 us anyway right??

A year or two ago maybe, but right now the newest Nvidia and AMD cards are running VERY inflated prices, we are talking 800-1,000+. The consensus from what I’ve read is to get a decent deal just buy a new rig, it’s almost like buying the inflated GPU price and getting a free computer to go with it.

Here is one I’m looking at right now that I could buy locally in person for $1,600:

PowerSpec G359 Gaming PCIntel Core i7 11700 2.5GHz Processor; NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB GDDR6; 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM; 1TB Solid State Drive

I’m so out of date I don’t know what will run well for VAM I’m VR. I know this would do great for desktop, but would this be strong enough for fluid VAM in VR given a pretty basic scene?

I understand the limitations regardless of rig; I.e. don’t expect to run more than 3 people in a VR scene to run smooth, turn off particle effects and unnecessary lighting,use the GivemeFPS feature, etc

Your thoughts? Is this a decent rig for the money? Should I wait it out a few more months?

 

[Fferrett]

Maybe if you're not going in for raytracing, 1080GTX is comparable to RTX 3060. But really, if you look at the last segment in that video comparison... Control looks like shite without raytracing on.

 

[popov]

With a Quest 2, Improved POV and Passenger, some of the experiences can be considered religious. You'll get better FPS and resolution out of a non VR display, but its certainly not the same. I'll agree that with the correct WiFi setup the Airlink is good if not better than cabled Quest 2 -- but the stress is on correct.
I still use headphones for full immersion.

i have had vam installed for about a year now, but I have really not got that big "wow" experience from it yet. Yes I understand it must be like heaven if you like to create your own fantasy looks or so, but for me vam has always felt "lifeless" so far, even with plugins made to "wake" alive the characters. I own a set of quest 2 vr goggles and I mostly watch vr porn to get some immersion that 2d porn cannot give. I don't feel like spending weeks to create my own favorite look or environment, so maybe that is my problem.
But I would like to hear what you guys consider religious experiences, as I might be missing something here
Are there any specific scenes I should check, I would highly appreciate!

 

[Jiraiya]

Looking at the 3060/1080ti comparison I would say dont bother upgrading the GPU if you have a 1080ti !
RTX is nice, but you would spend a lot to get it atm. MUCH more important with VaM atm is raw CPU speed.
It doesn't handle multiple cores well, but higher speeds make a difference. If you want to upgrade a better CPU might be a good investment atm.
That said there are 2 current options for massive framerate improvements that I tried and both work amazingly.
SSW on Virtual Desktop. Basically it uses the Quest2 cpu to interpolate frames so you get double the framerate with NO hit on performance on the desktop machine. It just works. Free FPS.
FidelityFX from AMD. A free open source "upscaler" that runs on the GPU to increase the resolution of output. This means you can decrease the render res and get the same output, but with higher FPS. I did a test with a slow scene and went from 24fps to 35fps using JUST the fidelityFX plugin.

The Quest 2 with Virtual Desktop wirelessly is amazing. Clear your play space and walk around the room! complete tracking. No wires total freedom and full tracking has to be experienced to be believed how immersive it makes things.
Second, as mentioned the Q2 hand tracking works (in Virtual Desktop) so you can put the controllers down and still see your hands in game to 'touch' things. That is pretty cool too.

I actually modelled my room in Blender and pushed it through Unity into VaM (a couple cm accuracy). So I can sit in my room, and be in the room virtually. Put in my favourite model and she sits on my sofa next to me! I can get up and walk around my room without bumping into things, I can walk to the computer, sit at the desk even type on the KB without taking the headset off. Pretty epic.

When people talk about "almost religious" experiences, they are loading the right scenes. Most of the "dark dingy voids" scenes are poor, but a good asset for the location and a high textured model makes you really feel you are there and can reach out and touch them. Without a controller in your hand it's actually jarring when you reach out and your hand passes through them IRL.

I bet if you added a posable mannequin or doll positioned to match the game character it would be... freaky.

I have imported a lot of free Unity assets into VaM, do not be afraid to create. When you start to make your dreams come true, even if only in VR it's amazing.

 

[Jiraiya]

i have had vam installed for about a year now, but I have really not got that big "wow" experience from it yet. Yes I understand it must be like heaven if you like to create your own fantasy looks or so, but for me vam has always felt "lifeless" so far, even with plugins made to "wake" alive the characters. I own a set of quest 2 vr goggles and I mostly watch vr porn to get some immersion that 2d porn cannot give. I don't feel like spending weeks to create my own favorite look or environment, so maybe that is my problem.
But I would like to hear what you guys consider religious experiences, as I might be missing something here
Are there any specific scenes I should check, I would highly appreciate!

There are patreon accounts taking commission and a lot of ready made amazing looks, including ones that resemble famous figures actors and singers etc. Somebody even just made a PS1 style Lara Croft lookalike.

I think the standard "dark void" maybe a wall or a bed ruins the immersion. Find a nice location asset, there are some GREAT ones out there! You can always download free unity assets and convert them with relative ease to work in VaM (my preferred option). I uploaded some assets here. Want to be with Princess Leia from Star Wars while R2D2 watches as you make out in the Spaceship from the start of Episode 4? You can do that with VaM...
You get out what you put in Spend some time being creative and get rewarded.

 

[Jiraiya]

Here is one I’m looking at right now that I could buy locally in person for $1,600:

PowerSpec G359 Gaming PCIntel Core i7 11700 2.5GHz Processor; NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB GDDR6; 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM; 1TB Solid State Drive

That PC sounds good enough to me. I just upgraded to a 3060 and am very happy with it. I have a Ryzen 5 5600X but that intel should be good.
Especially for VaM, does it go up to 4.9GHZ or is it locked at 2.5? If it goes to 4.9 you should get some good performance out of it in VaM as the clock is more important than number of cores atm.
You will want a second drive for storage though. 1TB lol. That will be gone in a week once you install windows, your steam library and start building a big VaM texture cache.

 

[Johninvr]

i have had vam installed for about a year now, but I have really not got that big "wow" experience from it yet. Yes I understand it must be like heaven if you like to create your own fantasy looks or so, but for me vam has always felt "lifeless" so far, even with plugins made to "wake" alive the characters. I own a set of quest 2 vr goggles and I mostly watch vr porn to get some immersion that 2d porn cannot give. I don't feel like spending weeks to create my own favorite look or environment, so maybe that is my problem.
But I would like to hear what you guys consider religious experiences, as I might be missing something here
Are there any specific scenes I should check, I would highly appreciate!

Even though I have yet to experience VAM to its full effect, even hearing about its capabilities has me thrilled to the level of a kid at Christmas.

What really gets me is the idea of full immersion, along with infinitely customizable characters and environments.

So to compare it to VR porn which I have experienced plenty of: In a VR porn scene with traditional porn stars, you are typically just a passive viewer stuck in a fixed spot. Sure, you can look any direction in 3DoF, (up and down, left and right, yaw) but for the most part the “action” is in one direction and you are limited to that one POV. Sure it’s in 3D, but you can’t reach out and touch the pornstar, you can’t speed up or slow down the action, you can’t control the positions, expressions, the time of climax, and you most certainly cannot freely standup and walk around the set like you are actually there and look/feel from any angle or position. You are stuck in a single spot and the scene is the same exact scene over and over again.

What makes VAM a nearly religious experience as other posters have said is the full, total immersion in the scene.

To start off with, you have full control of morphing the model into a look alike of literally anyone you desire, or create the perfect girl of your dreams that is impossible in real life. Even bring a favorite porn star back into her prime! Some of my favorites have gotten pretty old unfortunately, and have started to look rode hard and put down wet lol.

Then place her in whatever environment your heart desires, then you have the ability to control how she behaves, (is she shy, slutty, drunk, arrogant, etc).

Then, best of all and what I look forward to in VR is the immersion, in 6DoF. No longer are you a passive viewer, just along for the ride. Now, standing in your virtual environment with the girl of your dreams, you can do ANYTHING YOU WANT. Just the thought of walking around some of my models freely gives me the tingles. The feeling that there is a 3 dimensional character standing there I can physically walk around… Then the thought of simple things like height differences…. I may need to look up at a tall blonde with legs to her neck, then look down on a short brunette with a massive rack.

but the kicker for me…. In VR VAM I should be able to physically walk up to my model, look her up and down, then reach my real hand out into cyberspace…. And grope her breast. The only thing missing is the tactile feeling, but to my eyes my virtual hand it grasping my models breast, leg, hair, anything I want. I can also control if she seems to like this, or despise it, or is totally indifferent. I could do this in a virtual office, or a subway, or anywhere I want.

from my understanding I should be able to also grab her and manipulate her into different positions, although from my desktop experience I’m sure this could get wonky pretty quick.

Essentially once you have created a scene to your liking, it has infinite replay value because you can constantly control/change the interaction with your characters.

I am moving forward and buying an entirely new PC from the ground up just to maximize this experience, for now I’m just trying to create multiple simple scenes while on desktop that I would imagine will send me to the moon once I experience in VR.

Hope this makes sense, and if I’m missing some new experiences in the VR porn world please share!

 

[Jiraiya]

Just to add in a bit of a curveball...
Check out TempestVR and the OSR2. It's a DIY "stroker" that is far more advanced than the commercial offerings. 3D printed with off the shelf hardware. Once setup it copies the models movement in VR into real life movements, including tilting as well as up and down.
VR Handjob/bj or even her riding on top suddenly has a physical feedback to match the VR images.

 

[Johninvr]

Just to add in a bit of a curveball...
Check out TempestVR and the OSR2. It's a DIY "stroker" that is far more advanced than the commercial offerings. 3D printed with off the shelf hardware. Once setup it copies the models movement in VR into real life movements, including tilting as well as up and down.
VR Handjob/bj or even her riding on top suddenly has a physical feedback to match the VR images.

That sounds over the top amazing!!! This is the type of VR that I fantasized about one day having as a kid in the early 1990s. I can’t believe we have finally made it…. This is a definite milestone in gaming history.

thanks for all the input Jiraiya! Glad to hear that rig is somewhat similar to yours and the output your getting. Your ideas on environment were amazing especially recreating your own room that you can interact in! Can’t wait to start doing the same!

 

[Fferrett]

i have had vam installed for about a year now, but I have really not got that big "wow" experience from it yet. Yes I understand it must be like heaven if you like to create your own fantasy looks or so, but for me vam has always felt "lifeless" so far, even with plugins made to "wake" alive the characters. I own a set of quest 2 vr goggles and I mostly watch vr porn to get some immersion that 2d porn cannot give. I don't feel like spending weeks to create my own favorite look or environment, so maybe that is my problem.
But I would like to hear what you guys consider religious experiences, as I might be missing something here
Are there any specific scenes I should check, I would highly appreciate!

Anything that @AlpacaLaps has posted will learn ya some religion (195) AlpacaLaps | Virt-A-Mate Hub (virtamate.com)

 

[supacavalier]

i have had vam installed for about a year now, but I have really not got that big "wow" experience from it yet. Yes I understand it must be like heaven if you like to create your own fantasy looks or so, but for me vam has always felt "lifeless" so far, even with plugins made to "wake" alive the characters. I own a set of quest 2 vr goggles and I mostly watch vr porn to get some immersion that 2d porn cannot give. I don't feel like spending weeks to create my own favorite look or environment, so maybe that is my problem.
But I would like to hear what you guys consider religious experiences, as I might be missing something here
Are there any specific scenes I should check, I would highly appreciate!

Haha! Very true for me too. Everytime I get in VAM I always think to myself how goddamn dedicated you have to be to make this shit worth, well, anything. Even if it worked well and was easy to use (LOL) I don't think I could ever spend more than maybe 20 mins on it. That doesn't mean I can't see why people use it, and love it and all, but it's just not me I guess.

@Johninvr You talk like you can do all that shit in VAM, but how long does it take to get good enough in the software to do any of that? LOL, VAM may be limitless in it's possibilities, maybe, but only in the same way Lego's are limitless. Sure, you could build a house out of Lego's, but why? God, why!?

 

[Jiraiya]

Because then it's exactly as you want it!
I think the main issue is all the good content is hidden behind paywalls and patreon posts that don't even show you a preview if you don't subscribe.
There are amazing assets out there. A lot of free ones too. I found searching free unity assets then converting them into VaM assetbundles is easy.
There are some really good prebuilt scenes too that are just load and run for maximum fun
The point is you can put effort in, or you can be lazy and use other peoples scenes. It's just a bit of a learning curve to work out how best to get what you want out of it. Once done? Pretty damn amazing.

 

[Fferrett]

Because then it's exactly as you want it!
I think the main issue is all the good content is hidden behind paywalls and patreon posts that don't even show you a preview if you don't subscribe.
There are amazing assets out there. A lot of free ones too. I found searching free unity assets then converting them into VaM assetbundles is easy.
There are some really good prebuilt scenes too that are just load and run for maximum fun
The point is you can put effort in, or you can be lazy and use other peoples scenes. It's just a bit of a learning curve to work out how best to get what you want out of it. Once done? Pretty damn amazing.

The biggest challenge to learning VAM is that it's slow. Once you've built up some assets, the workflow pace for load times is horrible. So it's not necessarily the learning curve that exists with every product, but that out of 10 minutes working with the tool 1/4+of the time is waiting on the tool. It's an outstanding 1.x product, but it needs to progress to 2.x designed for multicore computing and better efficiencies with current GPUs and graphics frameworks -- its holding it back. You can see a similarity with the old Klub TK17 VX game that was fairly innovative for the time, but lacked development to keep up with graphics innovations. Right now, we love it. If VAM doesn't evolve at a good pace, it will lose interest and another product will come along to supplant it...

 

[Jiraiya]

There are a lot of things you can do to improve performance. Running it from flash not spinning disk makes a big difference.
Especially NVME or m.2 with nice cache dram onboard, but that's hardware and not easy to change.
The FidelityFX openVR Up-scaler gives a massive performance boost for rendering frames.
There is also the "FasterVAM" plugin which I have not tried but claims to improve loading.

When VaM 2.0 lands things should be a lot better.