VAM 2.0

Medved

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Hi Everyone, Do you think VAM 2.0 will be ever released? Meshed VR any comments? Seems like the project is frozen. No updates for long time. I am enjoying current version of it anyways. Just thinking that it took too long and by this time you could release another Red Dead Redemption:)
 
Whats happening on the Discord channel? I would expect that meshed shares some stuff from time to time on the official forum.

//EDIT
Ok, done some reading. Nothing really new to me like a video or something. Nothing.
 
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Yeah, I logged in for nothing too
neverending walls of chit-chat and memes

cat-yawn.gif
 
I think someone is making a lot of money while delivering nearly nothing.


I hope there will be VaM 2.0. But right now, it looks like a fraud to me. Just my honest thoughts. I hope I'm wrong.

You can literally download the alpha from his patreon, please do the bare minimum research before accusing someone of fraud. Really disgusting accusation..
 
I downloaded the alpha already. But an alpha is not a finished product. Right now the situation is like Star Citizen but much more worse cause VaM 2 is not even playable, its just a minimal tech demo.

And I just expressed my feelings. I didnt say it is a fraud. And I said I hope I'm wrong. So, calm down and relax. I didnt say anything against you.
 
Well, I think MeshedVR doesn't feel any pressure, he lost only 2k supporters in half a year (but gain 3k after alpha release), so in this pace he can work next 4 years showing nothing...
 
he lost only 2k supporters in half a year

I don't think he cares about that..

When vam1 was announced it was already functional, after 3 years of development. How often do you see that? He's not one of them fraud95 game devs posting wallpapers and circlejerking crowds. Any other devs would have just milked vam1 into the 2030s...


To me the real question is not where is vam2, but where are the competitors. It might be the case that projects this big and complex can't be made with the kind of crowd adult gaming has, and one of the big reasons why vam made was because he finished a lot of the work without having to deal with the community. Hopefully this time around it won't affect him too much.

He's probably working in the same way right now, coding and experimenting in his own terms, trying to make cool shit and that's not something you can schedule. I think most people support him because of that. He's the real deal and did the job already and now is doing it again but better. You want him to do his thing rather than waste time with community pleasing..

But i'm sad too, I was hoping it will come out way sooner
 
When vam1 was announced it was already functional, after 3 years of development.

I don't know what MeshedVR is doing. There was trello before. On January 2020 there was info " Over the last few months work has been done on ...". So we are 3 years later.
So i'm sad too.
 
We'll I'm not too sad. VAM 1 is terrific and I'm getting my money's worth. I'm looking forward to VAM 2.0, but I also know that when it comes out, it will have growing pains and very little content for a while. VAM 1 has an enormous amount of content which is better than ever, so I've got plenty to indulge in.
 
To me the real question is not where is vam2, but where are the competitors.

I think because working on a VR Porn title is not something you can exactly put on a resume, so attracting good developers to be full-time on a project might be tricky. I think MeshedVR actually did say something like this a while ago on Discord.

If you're working on other things and it's a "side project" (much like for you SPQR?) then I guess it's easier if you have a "proper" job as well. But to commit to it full-time is a big ask I guess when you'll have big gap in your work experience.
 
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If you're working on other things and it's a "side project" (much like for you SPQR?)

I'm just modding, that's way easier. Improvising things, small stuff here and there. If I can't figure something out I can move on and do something else. I can get quite a few things done in a short time like that. I don't have to do things by the book, I didn't even bother reading the book. But yeah, for actual game devs I imagine it's an uphill fight to stay commited.

Some that I followed for example are https://www.patreon.com/drdeviant. They seemed to be going in a vam-like direction at times and they were trying to do very cool things like in their last post, trying to teach animations with AI. But they didn't receive a lot of support and likely got discouraged. Then they went in apologetic mode, sorry for delays, here's explanations, thx for understanding etc. I guess it depends on the person, but I imagine for a lot of people when they get in that zone things start to seem more like chores, like you're late, or you owe people something, or you failed already. People bugging you with "any updates?". I imagine it's like for painter to have to paint in realtime with an audience over his shoulder. It's not easy to code like that. Hopefully they'll continue it. But that's what I meant that community and committing to things in public might get in the way.

I'm looking forward to VAM 2.0, but I also know that when it comes out, it will have growing pains and very little content for a while.
I think it will depend on things, it doesn't necessarily have to go through the same steps as vam1 did. People might make tools to convert things or import assets easier. Plenty of content creators around anyway. And with a "server restart" many more would want to jump in I'd imagine. But we'll all be in some retirement home by then so no point in speaking about such things
 
100%. This was also mentioned a lot of times. Since it's a much newer version of unity and the models for example are switching from Genesis 2 to 8, there will be big differences.
 
Another important point to consider which I've made a thread about some time ago, is the transition and adoption period from VAM 1.x users to VAM 2.x.

As of now VAM 1.x is like the "Skyrim" in this 'field' of Sex Simulators out there. There's been years and hundreds of creators and editors' worth of content for download, either free or paid. In the end, there's too much content to just leave behind whenever VAM 2.x does come out. The reality is that whenever VAM 2.x will come out it will absolutely pale in comparison to the total amount of content already available for 1.x. Additionally, even if VAM 2.x would allow for somewhat of a 'smooth' porting of 1.x mods over, the real issue isn't exactly whether or not it will be "Easy" to do; it's about whether or not original creators / editors of content WILL bother to do it at all, or if they don't, then will they give permission for someone else to do it for them.

I've seen this situation happen to some degree (but not comparable to the scale of the situation that will affect VAM) with Honey Select. The first Honey Select (regardless of what some people here might think of it in terms of 'quality') had a gold mine of content that accumulated Skyrim Mods-style over many years. When Honey Select 2 came out it was struggling to attract the "mass" of users. The only thing it really had going for itself at the start were somewhat improved character models (not that crazy of an upgrade, but it was there) and better Lightning / Shadows and that's about it. In fact, the Facial expressions were worse in HS2 compared to HS1 (at least initially, for the period of time I did try HS2 when it came out I was stunned by the downgrade of that). It took HS2 many months to start receiving enough Plugins and content mod ports to "catch up" on just a fraction of the content that could be found for the first one (which remained very active during the first year or two of HS2's release).

I absolutely predict the same will happen for VAM 2.x. In fact, I would argue that the 'problem' with VAM might be worse simply because a LOT of the content that many users have is Paid-for, and I actually know of Patreon artists (authors of content here) who will do at least a portion of their VAM 1.x content ports by Commissions only. So imagine a situation where you download some Paid-for Look that you've gotten without maybe knowing that originally it was Commissioned at a price, only to find out that to use that Look in VAM 2.x you'd have to subcribe to that Patreon artist AND pay him (or her) the original Commission price (or at least probably half of it, but that will be the decision of the artist) in order to get that same Look in VAM 2.x. Now granted, such a situation will be rare, and probably very niche too. But it will happen, believe me. It's not like Patreon artists will do everything for free (nor do I "blame" them for it, they DO, in many cases, absolutely deserve to be paid for their work and nothing will ever change my mind on that).

That's why in my original post about this looming "issue" for VAM 2.x I highly recommended that the MeshedVR team - somehow - produce more updates to VAM 1.x at least in terms of performance improvements (if at all possible). However, there's also a problem of a sort of "Self Competition" situation with this. If MeshedVR were to upgrade VAM 1.x further, it would down-value VAM 2.x, especially at release; because then VAM 1.x would truly still be way better, like WAY better for general content for most users. The reality is that the majority of users will have in mind that they are content (no pun intended) with whatever it is that VAM 1.x offers them, regardless of how "better" 2.x would be. And there would be NO such thing as an argument like "There's no reason not to move on to VAM 2.x, it's just way better in every possible way". That would NOT be true. There's absolutely no chance VAM 2.x will have even the fraction of the content mods at release AND for many months to follow. The only reason why someone with 1 or 2TB worth of VAM 1.x content would "Move on to" 2.x would simply be because of curiosity and to see "what it's like" for a few test runs; then they'll close it and go back to 1.x because their favorite content and their whole setup is there, not in 2.x.

It's not as simple as "Let's make a better VAM and that's it", I'm afraid. It will be up to the community itself (rather than up to MeshedVR) to MAKE that new VAM version truly worth it in the end. Even if on a technical level 'everything' is better. That's like asking me to play Starfield when it comes out, versus NOT playing my Modded Skyrim which literally took me months to work on with tons of guides and downloads and .INI file adjustments and tests for stability and truly things I don't even remember I did in order to make the game look the way it does and play with the content it has. Just won't happen.

So the point of all this is to say that VAM 2.x will have a LONG way to go even IF it ever does come out, before it can truly be considered 'better'. What makes VAM great is the content mods community for it.
 
I'm guessing he's a mostly a one man team with another being paid to work part-time (as a side-gig) on the project. He's obviously very rich judging from the number of Patreons essentially funding his lifestyle which is another reason why things are taking so long. There's no obligation for this man to rush something out if 15,000+ or so Patreons simply don't care enough to move on to something new, and obviously due to a lack of competition in this space.

Of course, eventually he will need to get something out otherwise questions will start to be raised by even the die-hards on just what the fuck this man is doing with all of those Patreons and the exorbitant monthly income that comes with it.

Don't be surprised if Vam 2.0 isn't even an actual product by the late 2020's. Don't be surprised at all.

Also one other thing; being active on community channels and actively engaging with the community does not at all suggest major progress is being undertaken with Vam 2.0. In fact, if anything, it's much easier to spend your days typing away on your keyboard in discussions (in Discords, social media or what have you) than actually putting your head down and doing some real work which in case would be software engineering.
 
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Meshed show trello for Vam2. There's a lot of time to wait. Looks like 80% of topics are research.
 
Sadly, VAM will probably be completely outpaced by newer faster teams, especially as AI improves work productivity. The current work efficiency of Mesh is extraordinarily low because of a straight refusal to hire additional talent that could easily see the project cut its development time by literal years after factoring any bringing them up to speed.

In truth, we all know the main focus is to milk it as much as humanly possible, not that anyone could really blame him. This also aligns with the refusal to migrate to better tools when Unity is showing strong decline because it is easier to stick with what Mesh knows, especially with more recent drama showing Unity is outright unwilling to keep current with technology like DirectStorage, superior Unreal Engine offerings, etc. Probably worst is how limiting Daz is and the current scope of the project not to mention the dependence on others to add stuff and fix stuff in the final product that should readily be included/fixed by the developer themselves just like with 1.x.

The reality is bleak, but it all comes back to money, learning curve, and work life balance to which I can't entirely blame the creator for this choice. This is the simplest and most profitable path while retaining their sanity wheres doing a more efficient job could work out but also might not be nearly as profitable if unstable results as milking it.
 
Sorry by "ourpaced" you mean currently VaM has competitors? What are they?
At the moment, none in that specific space with the closest but still distant competitors being Wild Life and FD Operation Lovecraft.

My comment about competitors is more towards future projects that could pop up out of no where, for clarification, and not existing real risks. This is an issue because as the adult game scene matures and even more critically AI based technologies that improve efficiency or radically evolve what is capable in these types of games, far beyond what Mesh's current scope is targeting or willing to consider, it could eventually have a real more direct competitor pop up out of no where. We've seen this with impressive projects that do just this but then stall after making rapid progress and offering significantly superior results because of personal issues or scope creep like NaughtySandbox, Afterparty, etc. A better example would be Starcitizen which is, frankly, ancient at this point but has faced contenders such as EliteDangerous, No Mans Sky, or the newer Starfield which pop up and relative by comparison quickly release offering a great portion of what it promises with an actual proper product while it still has no existing release date or real meaningful content and has gradually becoming increasingly dated technologically and visually and no longer offering bleeding edge features or content options that don't largely exist in other games before the whole AI development issue even became relevant.

This is especially so because Mesh's roadmap is "years" or "many years" to be more precise. In fact, even the next real beta based on their comments is still "years" on the timetable unfortunately.
 
For everyone interested:

 
In truth, we all know the main focus is to milk it as much as humanly possible, not that anyone could really blame him.

...

The reality is bleak, but it all comes back to money, learning curve, and work life balance to which I can't entirely blame the creator for this choice. This is the simplest and most profitable path while retaining their sanity wheres doing a more efficient job could work out but also might not be nearly as profitable if unstable results as milking it.

Anyone who thinks Meshed is in this for the money should go to the Patreon page and review the vam1 release history. Count the number of times a massive new release has come out that Meshed decided to call a minor release, and not require people to purchase a new key. He does this over and over and over.

If Meshed were truly "milking" the project, updates would have been smaller, more frequent, and always required a new key. Business-wise, that would have been the smart move.

For some people, there is no such thing as "enough money". However much they have, they want more. Then there are people who just need enough to support their chosen lifestyle, and really aren't motivated by money beyond that. I'm pretty sure Meshed is one of the second type. He certainly could have wrung a hell of a lot more money out of this project than he chose to do. IMO, that buys him a certain amount of credibility now.
 
Anyone who thinks Meshed is in this for the money should go to the Patreon page and review the vam1 release history. Count the number of times a massive new release has come out that Meshed decided to call a minor release, and not require people to purchase a new key.
You are 100% right, good point.

But (yeah I like to be devils advocate) at that point it was totally unforeseeable, at least from my point of view, how big of a project this could be, moneywise. Patreon wasn't that "big" as it is right now (though I don't know how big Patreon really is right now, but I guess it has grown a lot due to Corona). I once said like nearly 2 years ago, I think this could be a god damn cashcow. And I didn't meant that in a negative way. If you have a very good product it's absolutely fair to pay good money for it, and also demand it.

Still, projects like Star Citizen and a general tendency in the gaming industry for creating shitty "beta 1.0s" but demanding full price though not delivering a good software and the early access trend, makes me doubtful. Of course I am talking mainly about big companies.

To me, it would be nice to see some progress, even some screenshots would do the job, takes no time at all.

Sharing "nothing" but demanding monthly payments is bad marketing and bad behaviour towards paying customers. To be honest, they ain't even customers cause there's still no product. They're backers. If I want to do business but don't have the money for it I have to take out a loan and the bank wants something back for it for taking the risk.

In general I try to trust people, even strangers. But sometimes reality hits hard, and the older I get the more distrustful I become.
I say it again: I hope I'm wrong regarding meshed, but there's a lot of money floatin' around. In Germany we say "Gelegenheit macht Diebe" (opportunity makes thiefs).
And if I am wrong at the end, I will apologize. But right now, I'm still skeptical.
 
Sharing "nothing" but demanding monthly payments is bad marketing and bad behaviour towards paying customers.

Quoting Meshed from here: "This is a crowd funded project. As long as there is stuff to be done I'll probably keep the Patreon going. I have told people they can come and go as they please. Just subscribe when you feel there is something worth subscribing too. Take breaks as needed. No worries there."

And here:
"I have no problem with people subscribing intermittently or even just once. I figure people will pay what they think it is worth. And I don't want to do pay up front because a lot of people join and find VaM is not for them or does not run well for them. Easy out for them and saves me hassle of refunding."


Nobody is "demanding monthly payments".

And you're not a customer. You're a willing supporter. Or you're not, if that's what you decide. Which is perfectly fine. Either way, you get to keep using Vam.

You want more frequent updates? Ok, I understand that. It's a reasonable request. But lets be honest about what's going on here. Unless you think $8 is too much to be charging for a Vam key (which is really the only thing he's "demanding"), there's really no reason to be accusing Meshed of being greedy.
 
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