Official Poll - reactions vs. reviews for resources

[hazmhox]

The star/review system is definitely better on a hub that revolves around content

I've read the thread and some of you have already said a few things. But more or less (imho), emotes/reactions are great in a context where saying something long or giving a rating is not necessary (i.e Discord, Twitter for instance).

But in a context like this one, the rating system is way better since it allows easily to sort by "quality" (more objective quality if you prefer). More or less like on Facebook : a content is not necessarily great even if 100k people liked it.

Also, on the slider on top (if you keep both) I would choose one or the other. On the list right below the slider, why not having both... but the slider does not need that much information.

 

[babul]

I personally like Nexusmods approach. You can simply choose a category and sort mods by most endorsed, most downloaded and latest updated, and main page simply shows newest entries by default. Usually in case of issues people post comments or post threads in bug report section, so before you download you can check if there's something wrong with it.

 

[qbase]

^ I like the mention of Nexus mods.
Not really a fan of the 5 star rating, YouTube had it in 2006 and it's been gone for awhile.

 

[CuteSvetlana]

Hi all,

First, I want to share I am baffled by the quality and thorough design thinking process that went into the Hub. It is far exceeding any expectation I could have had.

A lot has already been said so I will share my point of view. It is with a little aprehension that I see a star system being favoured by the public vote, for the following reasons.
- A star ranking system has a tendency to over-promote the behemoths of the community. An Oeshii who is already well known is much lileky to receive an high number of ratings.
- It is creating an entry barrier for newcomers. People who do homecooking will understand what I mean: you probably did not get your signature dish perfect at the first try, it took many attemps to tweak it to perfection. If 20 unknown people had given you shitstars from the start, would you have continued in your efforts? It takes time to master the many aspects of VaM. Personally, if I was receiving a less than average rating after having spent countless hours on a submission, I would probably cry myself to sleep and not touch VaM for a while (ok, 2 days top). If I don't get a lot of likes, I would get the message that I need to improve. This is much less discouraging and less blunt than a low rating.
- NSFW communities often see an over-representation of IT and Programming professionals IMHO. Sorry guys, but this is a population that favours hard metrics over User Sentiment and User Perception which are more difficult to gauge. If metrics are needed, the number of views and the ratio number of downloads (or click to Paid Contents) / number of views are good enough unbiaised indicators.

Last, we should not forget the human aspect. There could be a weekly staff pick to highlight a little known submission. To avoid affinity between people samely minded and the inner/outer circles that exist in any human group, the editorial role could also be a rotating position.

Hope it helps in the debate.

 

[babul]

I agree, Svetlana. Again, using example od Nexusmods, you usually sort by most endorsed or most downloaded which are good indicators of whether mod is good or not. The problem (that doesn't apply to VAM) is that some mods are last updated few years ago and still mantaining high ratio, but are kinda outdated. Then you can sort by most endorsed or downloaded in last year instead of all time. I think that's pretty legit solution.

 

[Guy]

"Reactions" to me reads as discord emoji spam, compared with a like/dislike system. I would recommend a like/dislike system where contributors cannot go negative (to buffer excessive negative feedback). Reddit is highly successful and still continues with a like/dislike system which I feel fosters honest feedback from everyone. This is a mature place, it should support a mature feedback system.

I do not think a mandatory response field is a welcome one.

 

[TToby]

I am very unhappy with any rating system, especially while coming from Reddit. Most of the time the user behavior seems highly irrational to me. Some very good or helpful stuff gets no rating at all, and some silly but popular stuff (with popular memes or highly edited pictures, or addressing a special clientele), will be voted up to the ceiling, because they are kind of funny or whatever. Remember, it maybe entails not only a reward, but also a punishment for those who put lot of work in something. More than any kind of abuse, I fear a non-adult behavior like I have experienced it many times in any online community.

BUT I understand the need for some kind of rating system: I like the way Nexus Mods does it, too. Filtering "most downloads" PLUS "most endorsed" seems to me like a somewhat good indicator (but...if you download it doesn't necessarely mean that you will keep it). But I think it needs a lot of votes/downloads/members, to make this statistical relevant. With only a small count of votes, some few "fun-voters" will change the whole poll. In some other communities, the moderators doing an election and giving awards or stars to some very good stuff. I like this as a relatively objective criteria. Real written reviews (like on Amazon or Proxer...) are IMHO a good thing, too, because it needs a lot more reflection to write some lines than to simply click on a button. I think, what we should avoid at all costs are negative ratings.

 

[Guy]

I feel criticism is a key to excellence in any field. Ignorance is bliss but not helpful if your goal is to make things people enjoy. If you're just making it because you like it, then it doesn't matter what others think. People are free to criticize whine and complain about anything I do, it's up to me to filter out the valid points from the nonsense.

 

[TToby]

You are right, if the goal is to learn something and personally grow your personality and other stuff like this. But with VaM, we all want and need content. Ideally free content. This will bring VaM forward and makes us happy. Lack of content was the death for many promising apps. In a toxic community, where you may get punished if you share something, you won't get this content. Or you would only get contend sold on Patreon where the creators lives in their own bubbles of followers. We should encourage the creative people and we should reward those who did a good job. We should avoid to drive them away. Remember, they do this for fun and they could keep their stuff for themself. They share stuff only for the appreciation of the community. From my own experience (I am old, so forgive me to say that ;-) ) bad rating systems have the potential to drive the people away.

 

[fossilcloud]

but a good rating system is not one that always gives you the best rating. ratings only mean something if they differ from one another. what really drives people away is desctructive criticism. if something gets downvoted or ignored for no apparent reason. thats whats frustrating about reddit too but i rather have that than a mysterious algorithm of a megacorporation like facebook that creates a parallel reality by deciding what is fed to you on your feed and what is hidden like it never even existed but everyone is pressured into fake affection and appreaciation while the platform shows everyone his/her own pseudo reality where everythin appears fun and dandy so you only realize much much later that its all just a fake bubble. there is always a cost to lies. some day it has to be payed by someone.

if you want a better system dont hide feedback but make it more detailed. emojis are not details but just ambiguous distractions. instead just have individual votes for art and tech. a model may look nice but doesnt work properly or runs slowly. a medium score wouldnt tell the artist anything but a discrepancy between the two would be an obvious sign and it also helps the user who all have different priorities.

 

[TToby]

I think our opinions are not that far away from each other. I like your idea for a detailed voting system. For instance on Proxer you have individual votes for afaik 5 different points. I would suggest an additional point: a check-box if you have already tried it out (or just did your rating because the picture is so nice and colourful).
And even with the very detailed rating system on Proxer there are still idiots, who just vote from their guts. "I don't like this love comedy, because I am a big fan of horror and psychological drama... zero points from 9"... and down goes a good movie to the abyss of oblivion. In this system even an only mediocre rating of 5/9 is like a big minus on reddit ("it has only 5 stars, so it must be really bad").

If I would have to choose (and "no rating system" would be no option), I would maybe like a compromise with a mix from "most endorsed", "most downloads" and a "trophy as best download in category yxz" from the moderators (I think they are much more trustworthy as Facebook).

 

[fossilcloud]

maybe one aspect could even be measured instead of voted on: weighted performance. compare the framerate to the default scene and automatically upload it to the hub if the user consents. that should weed out the casual idiots.

 

[FredricRed]

After reading the discussion Id changed my vote twice. I have to say that both are essential. If there really isn't something to "review" then a Emoji of a job well done in my mind is sufficient. But lets say a content is released and I really want to give a solid honest review, I also like this option. It gives me more of a ability to praise and to correct any issues I might see. As a community as a whole I would think constructive criticism should be accepted.

So for me: Emojis are for the face value while Review and Stars are the for the nitty gritty reviews. Just IMO

 

[thx1138]

As the 1-5 rating system is unused, or makes an early judgement based on one user reaction, rather than waiting for a minimum threshold of ratings to average across, I'd say to get rid of the star ratings and just use number of likes. Out of 2,000 downloads you might only get 10 likes, which is still less than 1% feedback rate, so 'likes' might not necessarily be much better as a gauge but maybe less subject to abuse. I'd keep the visceral emoji reactions also and the comments where users can leave more detailed, constructive feedback or technical issues with the content.