Question Is it possible to use a PC license for commercial purposes?

[Mairusak]

Is it possible to use something with a PC license for a game that will be sold (i.e. commercial use)

 

[hazmhox]

You should ask the creator of said PC licence.
PC licence just means they are paid content. It does not imply any restriction or licence limitations. Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying PC means that you don't have limitations and use can use them as you wish. I mean that PC just refers to paid content, and the licencing can vary.

So you should contact the creator and ask if you can do so.
It shouldn't be a problem if you're only referencing to a paid content. On the other hand, if you plan on bundling it with your var file, that might be a whole other story.

Pro tip: if you're referencing to external paid content for your paid content (let's say your patreon). You should be extremely clear about it. People paying a sub to your patreon might not be very happy to realize they need to sub another patreon for a piece of clothing or an asset.

 

[Mairusak]

I'm completely confused, I've looked at all the rules about licenses and still don't understand anything.Let's say there are paid clothes, if I want to use them in my game, that I have to agree with the author (but it's not said anywhere), if the game is on patreon, then I have to force everyone to subscribe to the author's patreon (it's also not said anywhere)

 

[atani]

You should ask the creator of said PC licence.
PC licence just means they are paid content. It does not imply any restriction or licence limitations. Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying PC means that you don't have limitations and use can use them as you wish. I mean that PC just refers to paid content, and the licencing can vary.

So you should contact the creator and ask if you can do so.
It shouldn't be a problem if you're only referencing to a paid content. On the other hand, if you plan on bundling it with your var file, that might be a whole other story.

Pro tip: if you're referencing to external paid content for your paid content (let's say your patreon). You should be extremely clear about it. People paying a sub to your patreon might not be very happy to realize they need to sub another patreon for a piece of clothing or an asset.

According to the forum:
PC = Paid Content: Cannot distribute, remix, tweak, or build upon work.

Official - VAR Licenses

There has been quite a lot of confusion and repeated violation of source licenses in (mostly paid) resources posted here on the Hub. Most resources posted on the Hub are using the CC (Creative Commons) licensing scheme. Here are some of the CC descriptors and their definitions: BY - must give...

hub.virtamate.com

 

[Mairusak]

According to the forum:
PC = Paid Content: Cannot distribute, remix, tweak, or build upon work.

Official - VAR Licenses

There has been quite a lot of confusion and repeated violation of source licenses in (mostly paid) resources posted here on the Hub. Most resources posted on the Hub are using the CC (Creative Commons) licensing scheme. Here are some of the CC descriptors and their definitions: BY - must give...

hub.virtamate.com

Do I understand correctly that it cannot be used in my projects?

 

[atani]

Do I understand correctly that it cannot be used in my projects?

Straight away no.
If you ask and the PC clothes creator says that you can use them in a X, Y, Z ways, then you can.

I'm completely confused, I've looked at all the rules about licenses and still don't understand anything.Let's say there are paid clothes, if I want to use them in my game, that I have to agree with the author (but it's not said anywhere), if the game is on patreon, then I have to force everyone to subscribe to the author's patreon (it's also not said anywhere)

There's no mention of rules regarding personal arrangements with the copyright holder because there are no rules for personal arrangements, they can be whatever people agree on.

Let's say the creator agrees you use them in your project, but you cannot include/distribute the PC clothes independently. In that case any patron of yours would have to also purchase the PC clothes of that creator to be able to use them.

 

[hazmhox]

According to the forum:
PC = Paid Content: Cannot distribute, remix, tweak, or build upon work.

Official - VAR Licenses

There has been quite a lot of confusion and repeated violation of source licenses in (mostly paid) resources posted here on the Hub. Most resources posted on the Hub are using the CC (Creative Commons) licensing scheme. Here are some of the CC descriptors and their definitions: BY - must give...

hub.virtamate.com

That's pretty much what I've said. I just forgot it was forbidden to use PC that did not belong to you as a dependency, and this one I think I need to discuss about it with the team. That feels very weird.

If you read between the lines: not being able to refer as a dependency to a PC that is not yours, close the door to ANY patreon that would subscribe to your patreon and create content with it for his own scenes. It's... well weird : )

I'm completely confused, I've looked at all the rules about licenses and still don't understand anything.Let's say there are paid clothes, if I want to use them in my game, that I have to agree with the author (but it's not said anywhere), if the game is on patreon, then I have to force everyone to subscribe to the author's patreon (it's also not said anywhere)

If what I said above that question confuses you as much as that... and you plan on making a game / company / living out of this. I might suggest you to find a lawyer and clarify legal aspects for you. Because that wasn't very hard to understand : )

If you're buying a piece of art under license restrictions, you have to abide by those rules.
In some situations (let's say an independent artist), you could ask directly the artist about the license and eventually break a deal for your specific case.
This has not to be explained anywhere (on vam's hub for instance) to make sense, this is something you can do yourself. Either respect the license, or contact the author to make a deal.

Now, let's say the author gives you permission to use it as a dependency, yes of course... this goes without saying that people WILL HAVE to subscribe to his patreon to be able to access it. This is their content and you're only referencing to it. They will have to get the source .var to be able to use YOUR content.
You could break a deal with the original artist to include it directly into your var, but this is not gonna be free of charge for sure. If you'd do that they would lose all potential customers for the asset you're using. So yes, as atani already said, people will have to subscribe to the other artist patreon to access the content... and the reason why I was warning you about that.
Again, this has not to be explained anywhere... this is common sense or at least "logical" if you prefer.

Now on another subject, you're using the word "game". Are you planning on actually making a game? Or simply creating resources for VAM ?

 

[Mairusak]

It sounds like nonsense, I bought access, or a specific thing, so I can dispose of it within reason, for example, if I bought/rented a painting, I can show it to everyone at my exhibition for money, I do not need to tell buyers that now they still have to pay someone who sold it or gave it to me rent

I can understand free content, it is given out for free and the author can tell me what I can do with it, because it is free, I respect his right and therefore I will obey what he saysBut when I pay for a thing and I can't use it, then there are questions about this format

again, this is my opinion, but the rules are too strict

 

[Mairusak]

Now on another subject, you're using the word "game". Are you planning on actually making a game? Or simply creating resources for VAM ?

The game is a visual novel based on Ren Py
VAM is used for pictures and animations

 

[atani]

It sounds like nonsense, I bought access, or a specific thing, so I can dispose of it within reason, for example, if I bought/rented a painting, I can show it to everyone at my exhibition for money, I do not need to tell buyers that now they still have to pay someone who sold it or gave it to me rent

License is about allowing how you can use something.

If I buy a Jurassic Park movie, I can use it for personal use but I cannot charge money to show it to others legally like my own cinema*.
If someone gives me a Jurassic Park movie, it was free but I still can't charge money like the above.
If I make a deal with the copyright holder of Jurassic Park, then I could get a different license to do other things.
Same thing can be for the painting example, depends on the selling terms.

* Unsure, but I bet I can't as the license probably says this is not allowed

Another example on why licensing matters:

1. You license your novel as PC or equivalent and charge 5$ per user to download
2. I pay 5$ to get your novel
3. I make a website and resell your novel for 3$ a user

I would steal your customers, but I payed for it, could I not sell as many copies as I would like?
No, because you set licensing terms that someone can't do it. Just because I pay for something doesn't mean I can do whatever I want with it, I have to follow the license.
Perhaps would be ok if I sold my single purchase, but more than that would not be.

 

[hazmhox]

It sounds like nonsense, I bought access, or a specific thing, so I can dispose of it within reason, for example, if I bought/rented a painting, I can show it to everyone at my exhibition for money, I do not need to tell buyers that now they still have to pay someone who sold it or gave it to me rent

I can understand free content, it is given out for free and the author can tell me what I can do with it, because it is free, I respect his right and therefore I will obey what he saysBut when I pay for a thing and I can't use it, then there are questions about this format

again, this is my opinion, but the rules are too strict

I'm gonna repeat a variation of of what atani just said. But, bear with me, the next thing I'm gonna say it just a joke and very friendly: did you wake up yesterday bro?

All softwares and licenses work like this since... decades now. If tomorrow, you bought a licence for a music software. You are the one and only one that will be able to use it. You could argue that "if you bought a guitar you could share it with your friend, so why not my music software"... well because that's life and how licenses work pretty much everywhere.

And to pile on what atani was saying: if you own a bluray, you cannot charge anyone to show it. And even sharing to a friend is technically forbidden. A copy of a bluray is restricted to the family circle.

All this... is not new, and not a "VAM" behavior. The whole industry works like that about licenses.

The game is a visual novel based on Ren Py
VAM is used for pictures and animations

This is a whole other deal. This is why context matters and you should always start with these kind of informations.

Let's say you're talking about assets from other patreon creators: in that situation, you could technically use without prior consent for VAM content because you are indeed subscribed to their patreon.

But this is different in a commercial game. Unless there are clear informations about the use you can do with the assets shared by the creators you like on their patreon... you should contact them in the case of a commercial game.

And secondly: you could use VAM as a tool to build your renpy novel. But Daz requires you to have proper Genesis licenses to be able to make a commercial game.

To quote a recent internal discussion: Most built-in assets are directly named after the product from the Daz3d store. If you use those, you must get the game developer license for them to be completely license compliant. VaM1 is completely based around Daz3d Genesis 2 models, so the related products are Genesis 2 based.

You just jumped into a huge rabbit hole wanting to make a game. That's not easy to understand, hence why my lawyer suggestion still stands.

Seeing your reaction about "licenses being strict", I suspect you are either quite young, or quite unaware of all those aspects of game development, so I suggest you to read a lot about that and inform yourself. Especially if you don't want to be taken down or have legal issues.

 

[Mairusak]

I'm gonna repeat a variation of of what atani just said. But, bear with me, the next thing I'm gonna say it just a joke and very friendly: did you wake up yesterday bro?

All softwares and licenses work like this since... decades now. If tomorrow, you bought a licence for a music software. You are the one and only one that will be able to use it. You could argue that "if you bought a guitar you could share it with your friend, so why not my music software"... well because that's life and how licenses work pretty much everywhere.

And to pile on what atani was saying: if you own a bluray, you cannot charge anyone to show it. And even sharing to a friend is technically forbidden. A copy of a bluray is restricted to the family circle.

All this... is not new, and not a "VAM" behavior. The whole industry works like that about licenses.




This is a whole other deal. This is why context matters and you should always start with these kind of informations.

Let's say you're talking about assets from other patreon creators: in that situation, you could technically use without prior consent for VAM content because you are indeed subscribed to their patreon.

But this is different in a commercial game. Unless there are clear informations about the use you can do with the assets shared by the creators you like on their patreon... you should contact them in the case of a commercial game.

And secondly: you could use VAM as a tool to build your renpy novel. But Daz requires you to have proper Genesis licenses to be able to make a commercial game.

To quote a recent internal discussion: Most built-in assets are directly named after the product from the Daz3d store. If you use those, you must get the game developer license for them to be completely license compliant. VaM1 is completely based around Daz3d Genesis 2 models, so the related products are Genesis 2 based.

You just jumped into a huge rabbit hole wanting to make a game. That's not easy to understand, hence why my lawyer suggestion still stands.

Seeing your reaction about "licenses being strict", I suspect you are either quite young, or quite unaware of all those aspects of game development, so I suggest you to read a lot about that and inform yourself. Especially if you don't want to be taken down or have legal issues.

where can I read about daz licenses


and then I would like to summarize, i can use paid content in the game on renpy

 

[hazmhox]

where can I read about daz licenses

Daz 3D

Daz 3D, 3D Models, 3D Animation, 3D Software

www.daz3d.com

(If you thought "VAM" was hard to understand, you're in for a treat)

and then I would like to summarize, i can use paid content in the game on renpy

I answered to that in that previous post: in the context of a commercial game, you should contact the original creators.

 

[hazmhox]

EDIT: You have to understand we are not lawyers. We cannot replace a professional opinion and we cannot take risks giving incorrect legal advices.
If you have any doubts, you should refer to qualified professionals.

 

[AshAuryn]

It sounds like nonsense, I bought access, or a specific thing, so I can dispose of it within reason, for example, if I bought/rented a painting, I can show it to everyone at my exhibition for money, I do not need to tell buyers that now they still have to pay someone who sold it or gave it to me rent

I can understand free content, it is given out for free and the author can tell me what I can do with it, because it is free, I respect his right and therefore I will obey what he saysBut when I pay for a thing and I can't use it, then there are questions about this format

again, this is my opinion, but the rules are too strict

If you don't understand the purpose of copyright or licensing, it is recommended that you do not try to make a game. One of two things will likely happen:
1. Your game will be removed by the website that is hosting your game
2. You may be sued by the creators of the licensed work you used without permission

 

[SlimerJSpud]

With the DAZ licensing, any 2D works (rendered still images or animations) you create using their assets with the standard license are OK to include in a game. What you can't do is include the meshes and textures in such a way that they can be extracted. MeshedVR got the Interactive license for a bunch of Genesis2 assets for Vam. These meshes and textures cannot be extracted from the game. In Vam, it does depend on the item's license terms. You have to check.
See also:

Question - License issue.

I see some adult games out there use DAZ3d or Vam renders, my question is can I use renders or videos that created by Vam in my game and release it on Steam or Itch maybe?

hub.virtamate.com

 

[hazmhox]

With the DAZ licensing, [...]

You're making it more complex to understand, and you need to jump from this thread to two other threads to get a "somewhat" accurate answer over several answers of different people. As I was saying earlier, since we're not lawyers it's better to be very clear and factual without going into details:

Someone wanting to make a commercial game from VAM needs:
- A VAM Licence
- A Daz licence

For VAM, you obviously need a creator key.
For Daz, you need to see with Daz what is best for you.

Even tho you're right about the licence type for Daz, you could be wrong in user X or Y case. If they had any legal issue because they followed your advice they could put that on you (even tho, you don't risk anything... and legally, it's their problem if they trust someone on the internet for legal advice).
It's better to state "generic" facts and leave people do the ground work to choose their licence.