I got blocked from making stuff and I don’t care about it, but……..

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This is a guy with over 13.000 patreons, the lowest amount monthly is about 3USD, highest being 10USD, so lets say the norm is 4USD, 4 x 13.000, thats 52.000 USD income a month from only patreon alone, 13.000 users and forums both here and on Trello. He could - in theory - hire an army to do all his work with that amount of income and then simply live a rich fastlane high society life with a pornstar-goddess wife/husband
I think you strongly overestimate what that amount of money can do. First Patreon eats some 20% of that, just for transaction fees and Patreon's own share. Then MeshedVR is not a single person, its a small company. There is Meshed himself, of course, but he pays something like 4-5 of people full-time, plus some part-time like that lawyer. If you consider having to pay taxes, health and social insurance, PC/VR hardware, office equipment (ergonomic chair/desk), office space (be it at home or some actual office), internet and power bill for several people, plus some savings for bad times (VaM is high risk, any minute some competitor game could come and grab half the users! Or someone could get sick, etc.).....considering that 52K$/month is not much.
 
... not to forget about all those licensing fees for Unity, tools, plugins, used DAZ stuff, a.s.o.
My wife and I are running a small company, too. 50k$ sounds like much of money, but at the end you personally can keep only a small fraction of this. :(
Nevertheless, it would be good to see some V2 candy, soon.
 
Just to add to this debate, no one's mentioned the STRESS of doing paid work. There's a whole cross-section of users/players who are too dumb or lazy to figure out how anything works. They get angry about their own ineptitude and if you are a dev they will blame you slate your product. I'd help anyone who approached me with a reasonable attitude, btw. This is not about you guys.

Good example: speech recognition and voice synthesis. Some guys don't bother to read the simple instructions, stating quite clearly that in order for Speech Recognition to work, you have to configure Speech recognition you PC's settings. But they don't bother, so the plugin, of course won't work. So, who's fault is this? Another example: You build a bot for a specific purpose, you tell your customer it can't answer every question in the known universe, only what you've agreed to train it on, and then they complain it can't add 2+2, or do any other simple maths, nor does it know what is the capital city of Iceland. And they are not paying you until it can. You explain that you hadn't agreed to enable it perform maths functions, only to answer question about the various type of materials in shoes that this bot is marketing. And this fucking goes on...and on.

The reason I mention the above, is because I'm very close to finishing a seven thousand word interactive audio book to be read by VAM models in a scene. It's completely FREE to use. Three months free research and development. What's the betting I'll get bombarded with some one-star ratings by users who haven't configured speech recognition and didn't bother to read the instructions and list of verbal commands? And no, these bots don't have any fricking clue what the is capital city of any fucking anywhere, nor do they have recipes for making organic pasta, because I haven't trained them to know anything about capital cities and pasta, and they are not Alexa.

Now, I'm working for free, basically because I couldn't achieve any of this without some utterly AMAZING free plugins. That, combined, would cost $1000's in the Unity asset store and require ridiculous levels of coding. And you are under pressure to make everything work to a deadline. Can anyone imagine the stress of doing this for paid customers?

*Rant over*

Apologies for swearing. :)
 
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Longtime VAM and multiple Patreon supporter here who has never created anything (and most likely never will) but while you are here debating this topic I have a somewhat related question.

I can purchase a bunch of Daz mods then make a look in DAZ and create an all-in-one morph utilizing them. I can then convert that all-in-one morph for use in VAM and post said look without crediting the DAZ authors and ignore any license etc?
If so... Is there any easy way to reverse engineer those looks to make sure you aren't supporting someone who does this?
 
You can NEVER 'ignore' a licence.
You should always follow the terms. Just because you are publishing their work on another platform it doesn't invalidate their licence.
I try to contribute, I try to credit, but I am lazy and forgetful. Apologies to anybody I fail to credit, poke me if you notice and I will add such credit as required.
 
I think you strongly overestimate what that amount of money can do. First Patreon eats some 20% of that, just for transaction fees and Patreon's own share. Then MeshedVR is not a single person, its a small company. There is Meshed himself, of course, but he pays something like 4-5 of people full-time, plus some part-time like that lawyer. If you consider having to pay taxes, health and social insurance, PC/VR hardware, office equipment (ergonomic chair/desk), office space (be it at home or some actual office), internet and power bill for several people, plus some savings for bad times (VaM is high risk, any minute some competitor game could come and grab half the users! Or someone could get sick, etc.).....considering that 52K$/month is not much.
True
Longtime VAM and multiple Patreon supporter here who has never created anything (and most likely never will) but while you are here debating this topic I have a somewhat related question.

I can purchase a bunch of Daz mods then make a look in DAZ and create an all-in-one morph utilizing them. I can then convert that all-in-one morph for use in VAM and post said look without crediting the DAZ authors and ignore any license etc?
If so... Is there any easy way to reverse engineer those looks to make sure you aren't supporting someone who does this?
Not really, once in VAM you can combine it with morphs there aswell, make minor adjustements, it's obvious if someone just copies something without actually creating some form of evolution / something new to the table. There will always be people like that.

All development is somewhat "stealing", whether it be cars, clothes, houses, phones etc in the real world, 3D-models etc, and thats fine aslong as you bring something to a new level and dont just copy it.

I often download looks and tweak the shit out of them creating a completlaty new look that has zero similarity to the original model, that's called inspiration, there's really nothing in life we do without being inspired or biased towards something.

It all boils down to common sense really. If I use elements with minor change, then its obvious its beyond "inspiration" thus credit is due. Even when unrecognizable one can also mention who inspired you, doesnt hurt.
 
You can NEVER 'ignore' a licence.
You should always follow the terms. Just because you are publishing their work on another platform it doesn't invalidate their licence.
I try to contribute, I try to credit, but I am lazy and forgetful. Apologies to anybody I fail to credit, poke me if you notice and I will add such credit as required.
People ignore licenses all the time in many different ways. Whether there are any repercussions for doing so is another matter.
True
Not really, once in VAM you can combine it with morphs there aswell, make minor adjustements, it's obvious if someone just copies something without actually creating some form of evolution / something new to the table. There will always be people like that.

All development is somewhat "stealing", whether it be cars, clothes, houses, phones etc in the real world, 3D-models etc, and thats fine aslong as you bring something to a new level and dont just copy it.

I often download looks and tweak the shit out of them creating a completlaty new look that has zero similarity to the original model, that's called inspiration, there's really nothing in life we do without being inspired or biased towards something.

It all boils down to common sense really. If I use elements with minor change, then its obvious its beyond "inspiration" thus credit is due. Even when unrecognizable one can also mention who inspired you, doesnt hurt.

Thanks for the reply.
So let me get this straight... If someone builds upon others' work from another platform (Daz whatever) and does not credit the authors of the mods they use, that is acceptable, but if someone builds upon other devs work here without credit, that is unacceptable?

Right now I'm inclined to no longer support any devs who post looks only with all-in-one type morphs and that is unfortunate.
 
If you "build upon" others work, that counts as "derivative" and they should still get credited, or whatever their licence requires.
(you CAN of course ignore the licence, what I meant was you shouldn't.)
If that work is a set of 10 slider positions, and you move the majority of those sliders by a significant amount, I would say that is no longer the other persons work. Their work is "the position of the sliders". If your new creation is not recognisable as being those positions, it's essentially new work and as such is yours.
If you move a few sliders and it's substantially similar? I would call that derivative of the original work. If you don't adjust them or only move them a token amount leaving it basically the same, that is still their original work and you have added nothing to it.
These of course are my personal opinions on the matter, I doubt there is a real legal definition and you would find the whole lot open to debate in court costing lots of money in legal fees no matter which side you were on. The only winners would be the lawyers.
 
Germany and Europe has relatively strict copyright laws. Breaking it down to some words it say: It is OK to use other peoples stuff for your own work, as long as you can't recognize another persons work anymore...
Licenses for tools or materials is an other pair of shoes.
If you buy some morps and stuff in DAZ, the resulting render images you have done by using them is your own work, as long as it is recognizable your own idea... this is the only reason why something like DAZ exists. If you use your Bosch jigsaw to produce a work of art is one thing, presenting the pure sawblade with the word "Bosch" on it as your own work is a completely other thing...
It is complicated!
 
People ignore licenses all the time in many different ways. Whether there are any repercussions for doing so is another matter.


Thanks for the reply.
So let me get this straight... If someone builds upon others' work from another platform (Daz whatever) and does not credit the authors of the mods they use, that is acceptable, but if someone builds upon other devs work here without credit, that is unacceptable?

Right now I'm inclined to no longer support any devs who post looks only with all-in-one type morphs and that is unfortunate.

That's an interesting point you bring up.

Seen a few people take 3D models from other sites, freely distributed, and then upload (rather link) them here ported over, but stuck behind a pay-wall. With credit mentioned.

I get porting stuff takes effort, it's not a simple click of a button and can take hours, but if you're taking something someone created (for free) and let's be frank, done almost all the work, and profiting off it, still kind of rings as shitty even giving credit.
 
People ignore licenses all the time in many different ways. Whether there are any repercussions for doing so is another matter.


Thanks for the reply.
So let me get this straight... If someone builds upon others' work from another platform (Daz whatever) and does not credit the authors of the mods they use, that is acceptable, but if someone builds upon other devs work here without credit, that is unacceptable?

Right now I'm inclined to no longer support any devs who post looks only with all-in-one type morphs and that is unfortunate.

It's the same here as on DAZ or anywhere else, except the community here is "live" and a bit smaller, so if you copy someone's work you are more likely to get attention here for doing so.

Morphs are a gray-area simply because pulling sliders isnt considered "artistic work", unless you have actually sculpted something by hand manually in a 3D-application then you're simply just sliding/manipulating someone's sculpture, and that's ok even without credit due aslong as you pull enough sliders, but that again comes down to common sense.

I agree wit you on all-in-one-morphs, its simply spamming up VAM with static one-use-only morphs, in most cases there is no legit reason by law to copyright or lisence a "figure", just like in real life, no one can deny me making a real life Lara Croft look-alike, it is protected by laws og cultural art, anyone can simply make anything or anyone. They may not like it, but the law is on your side if you do.

That goes even for celebrities, they will get nowhere, even if you call the model by their actual name, it is still your work and protected by laws of cultural art in basically any country, if we didnt have those laws there would be very few statues globally, it's not like every person whos been made a statue of have been asked for permission, you don't have to by law. Creating art figuring something or someone can't be copyrighted, but brands, trademarks, logo's etc can be since it is directly disturbing the market-abilities of whatever you copied.

Morphs as licensed work would never fly in a lawsuit, but copyright and licensing isnt everything, giving credit is still the decent thing to do if similar or recognisable to some work you built upon.

I will never credit 300 of the 900 morphs I use on a model, thats simply insane, tracking them all down, writing up the creditlist would take days, never going to happen.

Materials, skins, whole models, clothing, complete haircuts though is considered actual work and thus lisencable. Morphs however is 90% lisence-abuse where someone just copies someone elses morph and put their name and lisence on it.

Wil I ever credit "Arm left finger bend fix -by Morphman3000", hell no, especially not when I also havr "Left finger bend fix - Arm - by Stealo" doing the exact same, aswell as 5 "Pinkyfix" also doing the exact same. I have no idea who originally sculpted it in say 3D studio or Blender or some other sculpting app.

ironically i will never use whole-all-in-one morphs, if I did, I would credit it, as thats a whole other ballgame where someone has created a unique model from hubdreds of morphs, but I want my make my own unique models, thus never a need for all-in-one-morphs. I release all my models unlocked, even if I one day sell them behind a pay-wall I will still sell them as-is unlocked, no all-in-one-morphs, meaning anyone will be free to redistribute my pay-models in their own free or paid work.

I know that whatever I make is so good that I won't need to secure it with all-in-one-morphs, people will still come buy my work on my experience from other projects.
 
ironically i will never use whole-all-in-one morphs, if I did, I would credit it, as thats a whole other ballgame where someone has created a unique model from hubdreds of morphs, but I want my make my own unique models, thus never a need for all-in-one-morphs. I release all my models unlocked, even if I one day sell them behind a pay-wall I will still sell them as-is unlocked, no all-in-one-morphs, meaning anyone will be free to redistribute my pay-models in their own free or paid work.

Hi God, I want a Teslabot that looks like Miscreated's Freya... Can you make that happen?!!! ;)

All-in-one morphs have their purpose. I tend to use a baseline all-in-one I created inside VAM in my scenes to make it easier to build a package. When building a package you have to checkmark *every single morph* you used which is time consuming, tedious, and annoying. There is no "check all" option and I believe it is to force us to validate what we are including in the package.

That said, it is not difficult to verify and credit the morph creators. I make sure every one of the morphs that I use is either default, FC, or at least isn't PC or anything else. It only takes a few minutes to do so. A bit longer if you need to find a suitable replacement. I also credit the creators, which in most cases is Kenemate and Spacedog.

I also keep logs of everything I download for Blender, Unity, and DAZ so that, (whether the author is happy or not about their work appearing in a porn scene - I am waiting for someone that is uptight enough to ask me to take the credit down... lol ), I can credit the original creator.

IMHO in the grand scheme of things none of this is very difficult and is about respect...
 
Hi God, I want a Teslabot that looks like Miscreated's Freya... Can you make that happen?!!! ;)

All-in-one morphs have their purpose. I tend to use a baseline all-in-one I created inside VAM in my scenes to make it easier to build a package. When building a package you have to checkmark *every single morph* you used which is time consuming, tedious, and annoying. There is no "check all" option and I believe it is to force us to validate what we are including in the package.

That said, it is not difficult to verify and credit the morph creators. I make sure every one of the morphs that I use is either default, FC, or at least isn't PC or anything else. It only takes a few minutes to do so. A bit longer if you need to find a suitable replacement. I also credit the creators, which in most cases is Kenemate and Spacedog.

I also keep logs of everything I download for Blender, Unity, and DAZ so that, (whether the author is happy or not about their work appearing in a porn scene - I am waiting for someone that is uptight enough to ask me to take the credit down... lol ), I can credit the original creator.

IMHO in the grand scheme of things none of this is very difficult and is about respect...

I don't know how you build packages in VAM, but the models I make usually have around 800 morphs in them, I have never been asked to checkmark any morphs in packagebuilder.

All in one-morphs I'm sure have its uses for the author for different practical reasons, but for the enduser it results in spam/clodding up their list of morphs with one-use-only all-in-one-morphs which is basically useless for them.

If you log and keep track, good for you, but that's not the reality for most, its simply insane to be asked to keep track of say 300 morph-"authors" and credit them, let alone not knowing if they actually made it themselves or just stole it and put their name and lisence on it, that takes more than "just a few minuted to figure out" to a degree where its one major headache for MeshedVR and something he seeks to do something about in VAM 2.0 unless i've interpeted him wrongly.

Many of the lisenced morphs also depend > link to other paidwall-morphs, basically, spamming your VAM with errors on each load.

An example is the author WOLVERINE, he/she has alot of lisenced morphs in his/her name, but lo and behold - they are exact copies of inbuilt morphs doing nothing additional, yet he/she has lisenced it as his/her own, and to make it worse they are buggy as hell and link to paid-stuff no one has any idea where to find even if theh wanted to pay for it.

Respect goes both ways, and what most lisenced morph-authors do is -not- legit work and it is ruining VAM for other creators getting their VAM clodded with usless crap. One of the problems is extensive abuse of the plugin Morphmerger, which has resultet in me having to make a new version of Morphmerger to resolve alot of the issues, like finding all dupes in a model with a click, disallowing making morphs without a prefix so we dont end up with 35 similar "Breast diameter" all doing the same with the exact same name as it has even broken the trigger/variableslider function in VAM which target morphs by their names - I guess MeshedVR didn't ser that situation down the road when he made VAM. I have had to make unique-named morphs of ALL morphs for a system i'm making to cut down the time it takes to make good models, because it uses the trigger/UIsliders which fails on scene/model-save if they target a morph that has name-dupes, e.g. ending up with giving the target model two or three "Breast Diameter" instead of a single one.

In short: Using my system to say > adjust breasts, save, load the scene again and now those breasts are twice as big. That becomes a nightmare when it happens to 2-300 morphs, and can ruin other peoples work/models by messing them up.

I'm sorry, but I have very little patience nor respect for people who lisence morphs, abuse lisencing and dupe/copy without even taking the time to give their 'version' a proper unique name to it doesn't fuck up other users VAM and models.

The very few authors that has actually made something original and unique in regards to morohs among the 3000 thiefs I have no idea who are, but they are vastly outnumbered by those whom abuse the lisencing system, but those thiefs/morph-spammers have taken up 3 weeks of my life due to having to solve the problem wuth the system I made. If I hadent noticed, I would have released a system that would have ruined a lot of models for a lot of people, that would be a disaster, and they could thank the morph-dupers for it. Using UI-sliders on a lot of morphs that has dupes = ruining your model if you save it/the scene after using a UIslider on it.

Now I have 800 "UIslider-do-not-copy-morphname-Breast diameter" etc just to "solve" the problem, but in reality it's just a workaround for a plague, where the "solution" is also adding to the list of morphs ironically, like a paradox.

One day I'm going to make a cleaner, essentially scanning for dupes, e.g if same VMB-size and checksum, delete the newest VMB+VMI if the VMI-name is the same. If it's not the same, well then I cant clean it - ever - as I might have used that morph in a model.

Some morph-thiefs even have the same VMI-file name, the release a new one wuth the exact same VMI-filename, but inside the VMI they have changed the actual morph-name string but haven't bothered to change the filename aswell, result: A log full of errors every time you load up VAM about missing morphs.

Stealing shit is one thing, but ruining other users VAM and wrecking the whole morph-system in VAM is unforgivable, it's wreckless and irresponsable and every single one of them should be banned from the VAM community for life - zero mercy, and even then it would be impossible to clean up all the mess as alot of users have allready made models that uses a lot of thosed dupe-named morphs.

When its blatantly obvious that someone has made something with zero doubt within 0.5 seconds, then I will offcourse give credit, but I would bever forgive myself for wrongfully giving credit to some egosentric irrespondible asshole who has actually contributed to ruining the morph-system in VAM, and essentially it's impossible to figure out who is who when it comes to morphs.

Copying something is fine with morphs, aslong as you A: give credit and B: give it a new unique logical meaningfull name, and 99% fails on B completaly, it's meaningless > WHY copy a morph just to give it the EXACT same name? It makes zero sense.

I often see morphs, often duped, with meaningless names, one example: "armsup bend fix", it essensially is a morph that adjust the shoulder-pad muscle, so calling it "arms up fix" makes no sense unless your're in extacy, GHB, cocaine, heroin and merh crystal simultaniously while talking to pink pony-midgets at the same time, or because you're a 14 year old irresponsible brat who found a morph that made the arms look better when reaching the hands up in a scene/animation you made, and then you thougt "Good, this solved my arms up problem, ill just copy that morph and name it arms up fix for my own reference and release it with my lisenced scene and give zero fucks about those 2000 users downloading my scene who now end up with a new morph called arms up fix which makes zero meaning to them as the proper logical name for such a morph for anyone else who's not on five heavy drugs would be "Muscular shoulders".

If im looking to adjust the muscularity of the shoulders, the LAST thing I would think of to look for in my spammed-down, clodded morph-list would be "armsup bend fix".

I'm stopping my rant here before I get sadistical murderous thoughts, I have exactly 12.391 reasons to never credit morphs, and perhaps 17 reasons within those 12.391 to credit, which 17 I will never be able to figure out with certainty, It would consume more time than a human lifespan to sort out simply because 99% if lisenced morphs are stolen/abuse/100% dupes, clutter, garbarge, it's the one thing that makes me legit angry when using VAM making the process of making detailed models take 10 hours instead of 30 minutes simply because the usuable morphs that makes sense drowns in an ocean if crap, and I have to take a swim in that ocean of crap every time I sit down to make a model. I could make a list "these are the good morphs I should use", but they too often have dupes in name often doing something completaly different.

I even have a "Right eyebrow arch" that adjusts the size of the feet, go figure.

*manifests a Teslabot*
 
I don't know how you build packages in VAM, but the models I make usually have around 800 morphs in them, I have never been asked to checkmark any morphs in packagebuilder.

All in one-morphs I'm sure have its uses for the author for different practical reasons, but for the enduser it results in spam/clodding up their list of morphs with one-use-only all-in-one-morphs which is basically useless for them.

- Open Package Builder
- Add the scene json file
- Click prep package
- Click "Fix missing references"
- Scroll through hundreds of references in "Content" to select the files you want. This list includes most of the hundreds of the individual morphs that were used.


If you log and keep track, good for you, but that's not the reality for most, its simply insane to be asked to keep track of say 300 morph-"authors" and credit them, let alone not knowing if they actually made it themselves or just stole it and put their name and lisence on it, that takes more than "just a few minuted to figure out" to a degree where its one major headache for MeshedVR and something he seeks to do something about in VAM 2.0 unless i've interpeted him wrongly.

I only use a few models that I have modified so I can see this being an issue with someone that modifies models each time for each scene as it does take about 30 minutes to an hour to clean things up the first time:
- Open Morphs
- Filter on Morphs
- Click Active
- Scroll through and hover over anything with a box in the left corner; validate the license and the author
- Find suitable replacements (especially for anything showing Wolverine and VamX)

I personally try to remove everything except the default, Kenemate, and Spacedog. In some cases I include others but try to be very careful about it. Yes, it is tedious but it is a one time effort. I especially remove anything that is tied to another scene or look and is not a standalone morph pack.

This is definitely a problem though as it is not well understood. I did not understand the problem and consequences until I tried to release a scene that suddenly had 120 dependencies specifically due to morphs when I was only expecting about 15 dependencies total including custom assets.

Many of the lisenced morphs also depend > link to other paidwall-morphs, basically, spamming your VAM with errors on each load.

Yes, I usually delete anything like that from my VAM installation.


An example is the author WOLVERINE, he/she has alot of lisenced morphs in his/her name, but lo and behold - they are exact copies of inbuilt morphs doing nothing additional, yet he/she has lisenced it as his/her own, and to make it worse they are buggy as hell and link to paid-stuff no one has any idea where to find even if theh wanted to pay for it.

Yes, I avoid anything that relates to Wolverine and Bob Nothing. I am not sure they are doing it on purpose, I am betting they don't really understand the consequences of what they are doing. Maybe?


Respect goes both ways, and what most lisenced morph-authors do is -not- legit work and it is ruining VAM for other creators getting their VAM clodded with usless crap. One of the problems is extensive abuse of the plugin Morphmerger, which has resultet in me having to make a new version of Morphmerger to resolve alot of the issues, like finding all dupes in a model with a click, disallowing making morphs without a prefix so we dont end up with 35 similar "Breast diameter" all doing the same with the exact same name as it has even broken the trigger/variableslider function in VAM which target morphs by their names - I guess MeshedVR didn't ser that situation down the road when he made VAM. I have had to make unique-named morphs of ALL morphs for a system i'm making to cut down the time it takes to make good models, because it uses the trigger/UIsliders which fails on scene/model-save if they target a morph that has name-dupes, e.g. ending up with giving the target model two or three "Breast Diameter" instead of a single one.

In short: Using my system to say > adjust breasts, save, load the scene again and now those breasts are twice as big. That becomes a nightmare when it happens to 2-300 morphs, and can ruin other peoples work/models by messing them up.

Oh wow, yeah, I never looked at it from that perspective but that is insidious. So basically the name is the PK which creates a many-to-many situation which is a no-no... I wonder if, looking at it from a DB perspective, it would be possible to add a layer between the morphs and the user, build a table that registers and assigns a PK to each morph, (maybe a random number or part of a hash concatinated with the name or something), and that key is used to modify morphs on the fly within addons. The default assumption should be that users woont understand the system and will do the wrong thing every single time.

I'm sorry, but I have very little patience nor respect for people who lisence morphs, abuse lisencing and dupe/copy without even taking the time to give their 'version' a proper unique name to it doesn't fuck up other users VAM and models.

Agreed though I have to assume most are not doing it on purpose. Getting it right requires a lot of deep understanding as to what you are really doing and what is going on behind the scenes. There are many videos but I havent seen any that go into semi-technical depth behind the scenes deep enough to explain these consequences. It is basically trial and error plus feedback from other users, (and fortunately VAM has a pretty friendly and open user base). You as God know that I am guilty of that as well I am sure, until I realized the issue and spent the time figuring out how things work behind the scenes.

The very few authors that has actually made something original and unique in regards to morohs among the 3000 thiefs I have no idea who are, but they are vastly outnumbered by those whom abuse the lisencing system, but those thiefs/morph-spammers have taken up 3 weeks of my life due to having to solve the problem wuth the system I made. If I hadent noticed, I would have released a system that would have ruined a lot of models for a lot of people, that would be a disaster, and they could thank the morph-dupers for it. Using UI-sliders on a lot of morphs that has dupes = ruining your model if you save it/the scene after using a UIslider on it.

Now I have 800 "UIslider-do-not-copy-morphname-Breast diameter" etc just to "solve" the problem, but in reality it's just a workaround for a plague, where the "solution" is also adding to the list of morphs ironically, like a paradox.

One day I'm going to make a cleaner, essentially scanning for dupes, e.g if same VMB-size and checksum, delete the newest VMB+VMI if the VMI-name is the same. If it's not the same, well then I cant clean it - ever - as I might have used that morph in a model.

Some morph-thiefs even have the same VMI-file name, the release a new one wuth the exact same VMI-filename, but inside the VMI they have changed the actual morph-name string but haven't bothered to change the filename aswell, result: A log full of errors every time you load up VAM about missing morphs.

Stealing shit is one thing, but ruining other users VAM and wrecking the whole morph-system in VAM is unforgivable, it's wreckless and irresponsable and every single one of them should be banned from the VAM community for life - zero mercy, and even then it would be impossible to clean up all the mess as alot of users have allready made models that uses a lot of thosed dupe-named morphs.

I bet a lot of this is an unintended consequence of the package manager discussion at the top of this post:
Package manager says it needs to be included -> the scene creator checks the box -> it is included in the var package -> it is now listed 2x in the morph interface (1x for the morph package, 1x for the scene)


Copying something is fine with morphs, aslong as you A: give credit and B: give it a new unique logical meaningfull name, and 99% fails on B completaly, it's meaningless > WHY copy a morph just to give it the EXACT same name? It makes zero sense.
I often see morphs, often duped, with meaningless names, one example: "armsup bend fix", it essensially is a morph that adjust the shoulder-pad muscle, so calling it "arms up fix" makes no sense unless your're in extacy, GHB, cocaine, heroin and merh crystal simultaniously while talking to pink pony-midgets at the same time, or because you're a 14 year old irresponsible brat who found a morph that made the arms look better when reaching the hands up in a scene/animation you made, and then you thougt "Good, this solved my arms up problem, ill just copy that morph and name it arms up fix for my own reference and release it with my lisenced scene and give zero fucks about those 2000 users downloading my scene who now end up with a new morph called arms up fix which makes zero meaning to them as the proper logical name for such a morph for anyone else who's not on five heavy drugs would be "Muscular shoulders".

If im looking to adjust the muscularity of the shoulders, the LAST thing I would think of to look for in my spammed-down, clodded morph-list would be "armsup bend fix".

Yes, unless everyone is very diligent about it this will be the case. Much if this is from dups in scenes and looks from the package manager and the audit trail for credit is not automated and is therefor lost.

I even have a "Right eyebrow arch" that adjusts the size of the feet, go figure.

LOL!!! I need to go find that one... too funny


*manifests a Teslabot*

Sweet! Thank you! See you in a year when I need an upgrade!
 
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I get porting stuff takes effort, it's not a simple click of a button and can take hours, but if you're taking something someone created (for free) and let's be frank, done almost all the work, and profiting off it, still kind of rings as shitty even giving credit.

Yup, I've seen quite a bit of those lately. But I've checked the original licences, and they all state that you can use them for commercial purpose with the credit.

Which is as you say, kinda profiting off of the original content... but not illegal since the licence authorize it. This is why I'm using CC-BY-SA for my content... it forces any person who makes a new version of the content to use the exact same licence.

So more or less, any paid user of a creator who made a a remixed version of let's say... VAMMoan. If he got it on his patreon, used it then remixed it again and then shared it directly after release, the creator could not go against him since he does not "own" the initial licence.

But even with that... the problem is not choosing a licence, it is people actually being careful about them. Just as an example, someone was saying the other day that Quixel / Metahuman UE4 content was usable outside of the engine. Which is not the case at all. You could potentially use Quixel content only if you were paying a monthly subscription, and even with that you have a lot of limitations that will not work in the case of VaM.

Long story short ? You can do whatever you want with your licence, not matter what type it is... the problem is just people not caring or understanding them.
 
VaM became big because of free stuff and people who like making stuff just as hobby, now it all about money and mostly bad stuff. in my opinion you shoud be able the use free stuff and if you mention that you are greatfull (like Mcorp did) for the free stuff from the developers. Now it's not do able for new starters like me....i would love to make looks or stuff but i just don't like the trouble and bull like what happend to Mcorp (btw you can find als his stuff at F95zone also for free or in a torrent file). The motivation for making things should just fun and helping the community and not make money on terrible paid stuff.
 
in my opinion you shoud be able the use free stuff and if you mention that you are greatfull (like Mcorp did) for the free stuff from the developers.

The initial post is completely (imho) dumb.
The amount of work put in any quality content is huge. The initial post is "infected" by the logic of the startup nation / google nation : nothing is free. Even my content, if it is available for free, I'm mentionning clearly that you like or review (or do both) if you appreciate the content.

As we were dicussing not so long ago on Discord, this discussion is not about content being paid or free. It is about poor quality content flooding the hub.
It is not a bad thing for awesome artists to want a little money out of their content. Some people will keep doing free content, like some of us, others will do paid content... that's cool.

Also, I did not see the "original" content of Mcorp, but I'm pretty sure that the content has not been taken down because of missing credits. He is most certainly biased and some of his content might have used free content without clearly stating that it is based on other people's work. For instance : using looks and morphs from other people, tweaking them, merging and publishing it as if it was an original creation. This is something that happened to Damarmau with another creator who was clearly using his looks as a base an barely modifying them without mentionning him... and in this case it was even worse since the guy made money out of it.

The motivation for creating content doesn't matter. The final result does. And if your content has been taken down on the hub, there is most certainly a deeper reason than just not crediting people.
 
Also, I did not see the "original" content of Mcorp, but I'm pretty sure that the content has not been taken down because of missing credits.
I was about missing credits and the following behavior after having been asked to explicitly add them:
The user who posted this was banned after several warnings. They were given plenty of opportunity to correct the issue by giving credit where needed, but they refused and then continued to throw around insults because they don't like how the licensing works and how it is properly enforced here.
 
This new user @Skattie is the same person as Mcorp. Way to defend yourself! Well done! A broad "I'm grateful to all whose content I used in this resource" is not enough. You must give individual credit based on the source licenses if that license requires you to give credit.

I'm locking this thread. It has run its course.

Someone is welcome to start a new one if people wish to continue to debate licensing, but our stance will remain. Creators of resources that violate license terms of any kind will asked to fix those issues. In some cases, the resource will be temporarily removed until the issue can be addressed. If the issue can't be fixed (e.g. blatant copy of something from the Daz3d Store), it will be permanently removed. In other cases, like a credit missing to another creator's content, we will leave the resource up and allow for several days to correct the issue. If the issue is not corrected the resource is removed. Repeat offenders will receive warnings, and might ultimately be banned if they refuse to comply with the rules. It is a simple policy 99% of creators are following, and a lot of the remaining 1% are uninformed or just made a simple mistake. Just follow license terms and correct the issue if asked.

Thank you
 
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