Question Why sometime parented objects slowly drift away?

[Voithe]

This is a thing that dosen't always happen but, sometime, parented atoms slowly translate away along all the axis. It's so slow that the movement is not noticeable but, if i look in the Move Panel... i can see the numbers changing every bunch of seconds.

It's seem also that, at some point, they stop moving.

I can play looooong sessions where this nevere happen and, other times, it start happening as soon as i load a scene.

Any idea?

 

[TToby]

Sorry, I never have experienced this, or at least it was not that obvious.
Is this only happening to parented objects? To wich objects are they parented?
Can you see some sort of pattern, why it sometimes happen or not?
As I only read "slowly drifting" I instantly thought about a well known issue with some VR controllers, which needs to be recalibrated.
At the other hand, there are sometimes issues with gravity on parented objects.
But none of those things seems to fit in here.
Maybe you could collect some more informations for us, or maybe someone else had exactly this issue, too, and found an solution.
Nevertheless, VaM has still some nasty bugs. It isn't perfect and doesn't claim to be. Maybe this is one of those bugs.

 

[Voithe]

Thanks for your reply Toby!

I know the VR controllers issue that you mentioned. Sometime i have it but, this have nothing to do with that.

At first, i thought the problem only happens with VAM UI Atoms (UI Buttons, UI Sliders, etc) since i made a bunch of UI Control Panels for various use. To do that, i usually create a "root" atom (let's say a cube) and parent all the UI Atoms to it so that i can easily move the whole control panel around. Now, the problem is that sometimes the UI Atoms parented to the "root" cube just shuffle away in different directions (and i'm not moving the root cube). The movement is very slow... you can't notice it if you look straight at the atoms but... after a while i have them shuffled.

@TToby

Edit: And let me say that this is very bad for me since i like precise positioning...

 

[2nd To All]

I seem to remember having this issue - it sounds like you have the physics turned on for the cube. If you uncheck the 'physics' box it should stop the drifting.

 

[Voithe]

I seem to remember having this issue - it sounds like you have the physics turned on for the cube. If you uncheck the 'physics' box it should stop the drifting.

It's already disabled. Pysics and Collisions. The only thing active is something like "Use gravity when controllers are off" and the "Maximum speed" (but i think those are not considered if the Physics are off... or... this is how it should be). Anyway... i tried to disable "Use gravity" either and i'll try also to disable "Maximum speed".

I will let you all know if the problem is solved but... since the problem happen randomly (or, at least, it seems like that), it will take some time to check if this worked or not.

 

[2nd To All]

It's already disabled. Pysics and Collisions. The only thing active is something like "Use gravity when controllers are off" and the "Maximum speed" (but i think those are not considered if the Physics are off... or... this is how it should be). Anyway... i tried to disable "Use gravity" either and i'll try also to disable "Maximum speed".

I will let you all know if the problem is solved but... since the problem happen randomly (or, at least, it seems like that), it will take some time to check if this worked or not.

I'm not sure what it is that could be causing the drifting if that is the case. Usually when I create a menu I link all of the UI buttons to 1 parent UI button & have not had any issues with that, it could be worth trying as an alternative to using a cube.

 

[Voithe]

I'm not sure what it is that could be causing the drifting if that is the case. Usually when I create a menu I link all of the UI buttons to 1 parent UI button & have not had any issues with that, it could be worth trying as an alternative to using a cube.

In fact, I also use the same method ... I said a cube just for example.

Actually, it's like this: a (resized) cube that I use as a handle, a UI button parented with that cube, and all other UI elements parented with this first UI button. I also have another UI button parented with the cube to toggle all other UI elements.

That said ... I tried to disable all the options I mentioned in the previous post and ... it didn't work. But ... I went a little deeper into this bad behavior.

Specifically, I think I've found a way to reproduce at least one occurrence of this problem. If anyone else wants to try, here's how:

1 - Create an Animation Pattern
2 - Create a Cube atom with no collision and no physics
3 - Set the AP to control the Cube atom
4 - Create a Person atom
5 - Create an Empty atom
6 - PARENT the Person atom root to the Empty atom
7 - LINK the Empty atom to the Cube atom created in point 2 (parent link)

Now... if you look for some seconds at the Move tab of the Person atom root controller, you should see the drift happening.

NOTES:

- I don't know if ALL the steps are ESSENTIAL to reproduce the problem.

- My actual scene is a little more complicated than that. I have an Animation Pattern that control an Animation Pattern that control an Animation Pattern that control... etc. etc. that control the Cube atom.

- I solved THIS SPECIFIC OCCURENCE of the problem by using @Acid Bubbles 's Rubberleash plugin on the Person atom, setting weight = 1 (i think his plugin constantly update the target Atom transforms) (thanks Acid!). The main topic problem still persist.

- This is just one way I have found to reproduce each time the problem I am having randomly with Atoms that are simply PARENTED to another Atom.


Maybe one day i'll explain you the meaning of all this mess... but, believe me that, for me, the results is very cool.

@TToby (just in case...)

 

[TToby]

Sorry, I am out of ideas. You allready have tried out so much things.
Does the order of the objects has an effect? If you change what is parented and what is linked?
If it would be only when a person atom is involved, I would suggest to see if switching off all physics and soft body settings has an effect, plus all automatic behavior... but this is only a shoot in the dark.

 

[Voithe]

Sorry, I am out of ideas. You allready have tried out so much things.
Does the order of the objects has an effect? If you change what is parented and what is linked?
If it would be only when a person atom is involved, I would suggest to see if switching off all physics and soft body settings has an effect, plus all automatic behavior... but this is only a shoot in the dark.

Thanks for your reply Toby... you are always so kind...

As I said ... this is just one way to reproduce an occurrence of the problem. Just to let people try to see if this happens to them too. This is not my MAIN problem.

The MAIN problem is that the drifting happens RANDOMLY (some sessions yes, other sessions no) even on a simpler setup... with just a bunch of atoms simply parented to another one.

By now... the only thing that i can do is to save the Parent and Childs atoms as a SubScene and reload the SubScene when they get shuffled.
This is not a real solution but, at least, it is something...

?‍

 

[TToby]

Thanks for your reply Toby... you are always so kind...

As I said ... this is just one way to reproduce an occurrence of the problem. Just to let people try to see if this happens to them too. This is not my MAIN problem.

The MAIN problem is that the drifting happens RANDOMLY (some sessions yes, other sessions no) even on a simpler setup... with just a bunch of atoms simply parented to another one.

By now... the only thing that i can do is to save the Parent and Childs atoms as a SubScene and reload the SubScene when they get shuffled.
This is not a real solution but, at least, it is something...

?‍

Random issues are always the nightmare of every IT-support

 

[RandomVAMUser]

1 - Create an Animation Pattern
2 - Create a Cube atom with no collision and no physics
3 - Set the AP to control the Cube atom
4 - Create a Person atom
5 - Create an Empty atom
6 - PARENT the Person atom root to the Empty atom
7 - LINK the Empty atom to the Cube atom created in point 2 (parent link)

This example is kinda daisy chaining? ( cube -> empty -> person root)

- My actual scene is a little more complicated than that. I have an Animation Pattern that control an Animation Pattern that control an Animation Pattern that control... etc. etc. that control the Cube atom.

If it's just AP moving another AP there shouldn't be any shifting involved (unless there's something with physics, maybe freeze physics when animating?).

Try linking/parenting all atoms to "initial" one (one that is actually animated, from example that's cube atom)
If you link stuff in "chain way" (inside AP) atoms at end tend to "lag behind/shift position".
I noticed similar issue a while back by mistake, not sure what is exact reason for it (maybe just the nature of parenting stuff/or position update).
Don't think it has anything todo with framerate, tried locking frames and got same shifting results (with no person/no physics atoms).

My issue was mostly animation pattern related and kinda random.
But when linked correctly i don't see lagging/shifting.

@ZRSX also reported similar issue about shifting postion with parented atoms / subscenes.

 

[Voithe]

Many many thanks @RandomVAMUser! What you say about AP and chain parenting atoms is not what happens to me (in my case, the shift happens even when the APs are not playing) but ... @ZRSX's post is EXACTLY what I was trying to explain.

@TToby According to your response to the ZRSX topic, apparently, this happens to you too. I'm sorry that my English is so pitiful...

 

[TToby]

Many many thanks @RandomVAMUser! What you say about AP and chain parenting atoms is not what happens to me (in my case, the shift happens even when the APs are not playing) but ... @ZRSX's post is EXACTLY what I was trying to explain.

@TToby According to your response to the ZRSX topic, apparently, this happens to you too. I'm sorry that my English is so pitiful...

Sorry, I completely forgot about that thread... never happened to me again. *shame*