Question Thoughts on i7 14700(KF)?

[garibaldi18]

Hi again everyone,

I am trying to figure out a strong CPU to upgrade my PC. It looks like the Intel i7 14700KF might fit the bill. According to this site, it has strong single thread performance, and the price is quite reasonable compared to CPUs nearby on this list. I have read that VAM favors Intel CPUs and that single thread power is more important that having a lot of cores.

Hopefully this should be quite a jump from my i7 7700.

Before I set on buying it, I was wondering what others thought. Maybe even somebody has this CPU and can comment on how it works for VAM?

Thanks for any thoughts and advice.

 

[HolySchmidt]

Have a 13900K and it was a good upgrade to even a 12700K, had a 9700K before and the 12700K was a huge uplift. Buy it. You wont regret it. Single thread is the dominant factor.

What GPU are you using?

 

[garibaldi18]

Have a 13900K and it was a good upgrade to even a 12700K, had a 9700K before and the 12700K was a huge uplift. Buy it. You wont regret it. Single thread is the dominant factor.

What GPU are you using?

Great! That makes me happy.

My GPU is also pretty slow, a humble GeForce GTX 1660. While I’m tempted to get a new GPU for better graphics, I’ve heard that cpu is more important for VAM. I also entered my hardware on a bottleneck checker web page and it seems that my cpu is slowing down my gpu, or bottleneck if it.

I appreciate the reply!

 

[HolySchmidt]

Please forget and dont use those calculators, they are crap. Really. Are you playing in VR or desktop mode? VR needs more GPU power but this or that way: a 14700 will probably be bottlenecked by your GPU.

Please install MSI afterburner and check ingame in different scenes(!) where your bottleneck right now really is. If your GPU is not used above 95+%, lets say its around 70%, you have a CPU bottleneck. No matter how much your CPU is used. If your GPU already is at 98+%, you wont benefit of a new CPU.

Also play around with the number of lights, with different hairstyles, clothings, with female glute physics and soft body physics. A stronger CPU will boost physics calculation. But that will have no impact on environments, textures, display resolution or light settings. You know what I mean?

 

[garibaldi18]

Please forget and dont use those calculators, they are crap. Really. Are you playing in VR or desktop mode? VR needs more GPU power but this or that way: a 14700 will probably be bottlenecked by your GPU.

Please install MSI afterburner and check ingame in different scenes(!) where your bottleneck right now really is. If your GPU is not used above 95+%, lets say its around 70%, you have a CPU bottleneck. If your GPU already is at 98+%, you wont benefit of a new CPU.

Will do! I wil download afterburner

I normally use VR. Strangely, tonight I used desktop mode and was shocked to see how much better things looked. I’m not sure if the desktop normally looks better than VR mode, or maybe the slowdown is coming from my gpu after all?

 

[HolySchmidt]

Depends on resolution I'd say: desktop could be more pixels than your headset per eye, so sharper overall image.

 

[Devinebeast]

Will do! I wil download afterburner

I normally use VR. Strangely, tonight I used desktop mode and was shocked to see how much better things looked. I’m not sure if the desktop normally looks better than VR mode, or maybe the slowdown is coming from my gpu after all?

What vr headset do you use

 

[HolySchmidt]

@Devinebeast

Question - Recommendations for upgrade?

Hi all, I would like to improve the performance of VAM on my PC and would love to know how to get the most bang for my buck. I hope to spend $500 or less. Here are my details: Intel i7-7700 up to 4.2 gHz Lga 1151 Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 32 GB Ram SSD MSI Bazooka B250M VR Headset is a Quest 3...

hub.virtamate.com

 

[garibaldi18]

Please forget and dont use those calculators, they are crap. Really. Are you playing in VR or desktop mode? VR needs more GPU power but this or that way: a 14700 will probably be bottlenecked by your GPU.

Please install MSI afterburner and check ingame in different scenes(!) where your bottleneck right now really is. If your GPU is not used above 95+%, lets say its around 70%, you have a CPU bottleneck. No matter how much your CPU is used. If your GPU already is at 98+%, you wont benefit of a new CPU.

Also play around with the number of lights, with different hairstyles, clothings, with female glute physics and soft body physics. A stronger CPU will boost physics calculation. But that will have no impact on environments, textures, display resolution or light settings. You know what I mean?

I think I understand. Downloaded afterburner, gonna try it soon. Interesting that different elements of VAM tax different pc components. Never thought about that.

Thanks again!

 

[garibaldi18]

Okay, here is an update. After loading a VamTimbo Mocap scene just on my desktop, I got these readings:

My first time using a program like this, but it looks like my GPU is totally maxed out, even though the scene only has one model and looks pretty simple, whereas my CPU still have about 70% capacity...I think.

This means that I should upgrade my GPU rather than my CPU, correct?

 

[HolySchmidt]

How many persons are in this scene?

//Edit
I see, a scene where there's only one person is not a good measure point. Try a scene with at least a male and a female or with two females.

And your CPU has probably not an additional capacity of 70% cause it could be already maxed out at 50%. VaM can not handle more than X cores, dont know the exact numbers right now. But you will see, as I said, if your GPU usage is going down. That's when your CPU bottlenecks.

 

[SlimerJSpud]

Yeah, all that pesky female hair is an FPS killer, LoL. Here's another little FPS tip: Disable Sim on all male body hair, beards, mustaches, and pubes. Pubic hair does not waft back and forth during thrusting motion.

 

[garibaldi18]

Yeah, all that pesky female hair is an FPS killer, LoL. Here's another little FPS tip: Disable Sim on all male body hair, beards, mustaches, and pubes. Pubic hair does not waft back and forth during thrusting motion.

If only I found hairless women attractive! That would help my FPS...

 

[garibaldi18]

How many persons are in this scene?

//Edit
I see, a scene where there's only one person is not a good measure point. Try a scene with at least a male and a female or with two females.

And your CPU has probably not an additional capacity of 70% cause it could be already maxed out at 50%. VaM can not handle more than X cores, dont know the exact numbers right now. But you will see, as I said, if your GPU usage is going down. That's when your CPU bottlenecks.

So, per your question and suggestion I tried a "Yoga" scene with two females. The GPU stayed maxed at 99% and the CPU went up to around 45-50%.

My CPU has only 4 cores, I think. Maybe the 50% was because the only core it was using was maxed out? Or, maybe I just need to get a new GPU and b/c my current GPU is just working to its max. I don't understand this stuff to know what's going on.

FWIW, I don't really use/watch scenes with two or more models anyway...it just drags down the FPS and I'm perfectly happy with one female.

Any thoughts? My inclination is to simply get a newer GPU at this point.

Thanks again!

 

[HolySchmidt]

With 4 cores your CPU should be maxing out at 100% in VaM. So in that specific scene, where you have a CPU usage of 30%, you could have 70% more fps from your CPU. So if its now 30, it could be 100fps, in theory. Buying a new GPU could increase your fps drastically.

If I make a mistake in calculation somewhere, someone please correct me.

//Edit
I correct myself: your i7 7700 is a 4 cores 8 threads CPU, so usage is related to 4 real cores AND 4 artficial cores. If I remember correct VaM with its Unity version can only handle 4 real cores. Meaning, if you are at 50% usage you could already be maxed out CPU wise. You know what I mean?

 

[DJ]

My CPU has only 4 cores, I think. Maybe the 50% was because the only core it was using was maxed out? Or, maybe I just need to get a new GPU and b/c my current GPU is just working to its max. I don't understand this stuff to know what's going on.

Before reaching any conclusions, you need to see what each core is doing. A general "cpu usage" statistic doesn't tell you if any core is maxed out.

 

[garibaldi18]

Before reaching any conclusions, you need to see what each core is doing. A general "cpu usage" statistic doesn't tell you if any core is maxed out.

Is there any way to look into this using msi afterburner?

 

[HolySchmidt]

You can turn on the option to display the core usages within the options in AB.

 

[garibaldi18]

You can turn on the option to display the core usages within the options in AB.

Thanks, I’ll try it!

 

[garibaldi18]

Thanks, I’ll try it!

Okay, I figured out how to show core usage on AB—it is called CPU1, CPU2, etc. I have 8 which must be bc I have 4 cores and 8 threads. What I can post is a graph on all 8 CPUs during a VAM scene all with gpu usage.

What would I be looking for? Not sure how to determine whether the cores/whole CPU are maxed out.

Thanks again

 

[garibaldi18]

So. I tried looking at what was going on in the different cores with a single person scene (Vantimbo's stool mocap scene).

Here is what I got using afterburner:

The graph is kind of wonky but basically shows GPU usage, CPU usage, and then individual usage for each of the first few cores. This shot shows the high and low numbers:

The numbers go up and down through the x axis until they shoot down. That's when I closed VAM. For most of the mocap scene, the GPU was maxed at 99%. Each of the cores varied somewhat, but it seem like all were pretty similar. Are were used, it appears. While some maxed in the 60s and 70%s, for the most part the usage averaged around 50% - 60%.

This suggests to me that although I don't have the fastest CPU on the block, what I really need to improve my performance on my PC is a new GPU.


Right?

 

[HolySchmidt]

In general, yes. But you have to know that in this scene, with this character, with that clothings, hairstyle and body physics settings (body physics that you can influence in your settings for every scene by yourself), you are GPU bottlenecked. In another scene, with different clothings, hairstyle, maybe another environment, different light count, different body textures, it could look different, That's why I said choose a scene that you typically use and play with the settings to find out what is influencing wether CPU or GPU and where you are bottlenecked this or maybe the other way.

A computer is most of the time in a CPU or a GPU bottleneck, depending on what the software needs right at that moment. Regarding VaM, if the scene is needing more graphics-power (optical stuff) or physics-calculation (body, hair movement and settings, clothing calculation/simulation).

So, let's say you have 50fps now and you are GPU bottlenecked. You get a new GPU and that pushes your frames/s and you could have 100fps now because your new GPU is twice as fast. But maybe now your CPU is not fast enough anymore for 100fps of physics calculation. You know what I mean? One or the other is always bottlenecking you.

Let me give you an example of my system: I can create a scene with a male and a female with no problems, high fps count in a GPU bottleneck, let's say 100fps. I give the female a very high demanding hairstyle and it turns down to 70 ONLY because of the hair physics, I am now CPU bottlenecked. If I add another female I am down to 50fps because of the double body phsics. Put two clothings to them and I have 30fps.
Or I can simply open a very big environment with heavy texture work and I have 50fps with one female and am GPU bottlenecked. You know what I'm saying?

Push your fps and the next problem is probably your CPU cause it's already in pretty heavy use. I can't tell you how much performance you gain, cause VaM needs everything and will use everything. But you are the master of a scene and you can decide what is included. So you should be aware what affects what, you know?

Long story short: buy a new GPU, you will gain performance +X (20%, 40%, maybe 80%, really hard to predict). But your CPU is your next bottleneck, probably. That's all I can tell you.

 

[garibaldi18]

In general, yes. But you have to know that in this scene, with this character, with that clothings, hairstyle and body physics settings (body physics that you can influence in your settings for every scene by yourself), you are GPU bottlenecked. In another scene, with different clothings, hairstyle, maybe another environment, different light count, different body textures, it could look different, That's why I said choose a scene that you typically use and play with the settings to find out what is influencing wether CPU or GPU and where you are bottlenecked this or maybe the other way.

A computer is most of the time in a CPU or a GPU bottleneck, depending on what the software needs right at that moment. Regarding VaM, if the scene is needing more graphics-power (optical stuff) or physics-calculation (body, hair movement and settings, clothing calculation/simulation).

So, let's say you have 50fps now and you are GPU bottlenecked. You get a new GPU and that pushes your frames/s and you could have 100fps now because your new GPU is twice as fast. But maybe now your CPU is not fast enough anymore for 100fps of physics calculation. You know what I mean? One or the other is always bottlenecking you.

Let me give you an example of my system: I can create a scene with a male and a female with no problems, high fps count in a GPU bottleneck, let's say 100fps. I give the female a very high demanding hairstyle and it turns down to 70 ONLY because of the hair physics, I am now CPU bottlenecked. If I add another female I am down to 50fps because of the double body phsics. Put two clothings to them and I have 30fps.
Or I can simply open a very big environment with heavy texture work and I have 50fps with one female and am GPU bottlenecked. You know what I'm saying?

Push your fps and the next problem is probably your CPU cause it's already in pretty heavy use. I can't tell you how much performance you gain, cause VaM needs everything and will use everything. But you are the master of a scene and you can decide what is included. So you should be aware what affects what, you know?

Long story short: buy a new GPU, you will gain performance +X (20%, 40%, maybe 80%, really hard to predict). But your CPU is your next bottleneck, probably. That's all I can tell you.

I think I get it. Basically it’s a game of leapfrog, with only money or technology limiting things. But at this point it’s my gpu’s turn to be upgraded. If I upgraded the cpu it wouldn’t make as much of an impact, at least w my current gpu.

Thanks for all your help! I appreciate it.

 

[keycode]

wise way: the Holy Schmidt high-way (new cpu intel beast, new z790 motherboard or a z690 ddr4 for saving your actual ram modules- do-not-get-less-quality motherboard!!! - ... a very, very, very good, powerful, modular corsair psu, a very very very - said very?? - good cpu cooler, a big meshed front panel case, a good samsung nvme ssd.. the 990 pro sold with cooler). Your primary start point should be good-motherboard/good-psu: both essential and without cheap alternatives. If it is the first time assembling a pc, ask help to a real good mate with REAL experience, look what he does and save that apparently banal action in your mind for the future and just in "case", be ready with your collection of screwdrivers !!!!

fast food way: a 4080 rtx and a lot of luck if you have not a good motherboard, a good psu and a good pc-case with decent air-flow. But I would save money for the wise way

cpu cooler: for my 13700k a beefy, relatively quiet with my vam-settings, noctua d15 dual tower, dual fans, it is barely enough to calm down my cpu temp at 60°c max. I was disabling hyperthreading and I think I will undervolt a little the beast (I need a most silent possible pc, fuck all the rest ... I hate fans noise even when I play vam, mostly when I play vam, mostly when I play that bastard porn-game, mostly)

 

[HolySchmidt]

It's a matter of money at the end, but you also have to have some knowledge on what makes sense and what is just money thrown out of the window for nothing. So I'll try to spread some knowledge so that others dont make expensive mistakes or have false expectations.
But yeah, I have the money and the knowledge so I just bought it all
But that has nothing to do with wise And I have Z690 with "old" DDR4, made more sense back then, price/performance wise.