Question Low FPS on headset

[nebulabranding]

I get 70-80FPS on VAM on my 4k monitor, but when I plug in my quest 2, I get around 30. As the # of pixels is less I would assume the framerate would be higher, is it possible it's the headset? Or is it my PC? I've got a 3070/R5 5600X + 32GB RAM.

I'm starting to suspect it's my cable but that doesn't make much sense.

 

[DJ]

It's completely normal to have a much lower framerate in VR than on desktop.

 

[nebulabranding]

It's completely normal to have a much lower framerate in VR than on desktop.

ah alright, thank you!

 

[Lione]

I have 2 Quest 2 and a 3080 / Intel i9 10900 K CPU and most content performs very smooth using wired or Oculus Air Link or Virtual Desktop. I have also to say from my last days wireless Quest 2 Tests that Oculus AIR Link performs much better than Virtual Desktop. More Stable, better Performance , faster loading and most of all its stable while Virtual Desktop so often crashes VAM from just loading a new Scene or loading a Asset etc ..

There is only one scene of so many i tried which does not perfrom usable and that is Oeshii's New Zara Scene

Zara - Paid Looks -

Zara look includes; New custom hairstyle made just for Zara. Custom textures with detailed normal, specular and gloss maps. Custom genital texture. New custom eyelashes texture A few custom morphs sculpted just for this look in Blender Cave...

hub.virtamate.com

using a huge Unity Asset with many Particle Effects.
If i deactivate the Particles everything is supersmooth again.

Yesterday i added like 7 Models to the Locker Room Asset and it still performed better than Oeshii's Single Person Look.
So i guess Particle Efects use extreme Powers in VAM

I set Grafics like in the screenshot, perhaps it helps you.
I checked thee with many models skin / hair quality and the Models look great with these.
The 1.20 is the exact Setting between a max Quality and huge performance drop afterwards the 1.20 in VR for me.
Also the Physics Update CAP seems to have much influence on Framerate.

Thats why i set it on 1 without noticing anything quality look wise.

 

[sdfg3456]

try this: open oculus debug app, and disable asynchronous space warp. See if that helps.

 

[Case]

I get 70-80FPS on VAM on my 4k monitor, but when I plug in my quest 2, I get around 30. As the # of pixels is less I would assume the framerate would be higher, is it possible it's the headset? Or is it my PC? I've got a 3070/R5 5600X + 32GB RAM.

I'm starting to suspect it's my cable but that doesn't make much sense.

Cable?

I got a RyZen 7 3800X + Radeon RX5700XT + 32GB 3600Mhz CL16 RAM feeding a Quest 1 and ... yeah, that's also my experience (note that aside from the Gpu, my rig is a wee bit stronger "for VaM purposes" - physics calculations in VaM mean the CPU is the first bottleneck)

In the sense of "That's what I'd expect"

(For example bcs in VR, as opposed to Desktop, the viewport isn't stable. Your head moves, all the time - in fact, mine is making little movements right now while I'm typing this, just from impacts of my fingers on the keybord. Naturally, that means much more work for your rig)

But one thing I'd do if I were you, asap, is try Virtual Desktop:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/nwsh8c

Synchronous Spacewarp is in Beta in the latest VD version - your damn' Quest 2 has so much leftover horsepower that VD can use it to recalculate lost frames!

Edit: Can't comment on Air Link as I've never tried it. My experience on Quest 1 is that VD beats the cable hands down.

I have 2 Quest 2 and a 3080 / Intel i9 10900 K CPU and most content performs very smooth using wired or Oculus Air Link or Virtual Desktop. I have also to say from my last days wireless Quest 2 Tests that Oculus AIR Link performs much better than Virtual Desktop. More Stable, better Performance , faster loading and most of all its stable while Virtual Desktop so often crashes VAM from just loading a new Scene or loading a Asset etc ..

(DISCLAIMER - I'm very much not an expert, the following is just me going of off 'stuff I picked up here & there' - take with truckloads of salt!)

Ummmmh ... Not sure how Virtual Desktop should have any impact at all on your scene loading time? (Mind you, I haven't tested Air Link). Let alone how it could crash VaM?

You do have a beast of a CPU, that alone is going to help loading & browsing - but it won't fix VaM's memory leak, which will inevitably slow down & crash any machine unless you periodically do a "hard rest" (Main GUI).

So if you start a VaM session and just keep loading scenes and doing stuff and don't reset, it's completely natural that your machine will get slower and slower and eventually crash - it's just that witht a beast of a rig like yours, it'll take longer, and the experience will be more drastic.

When you tested VD vs Air Link, did you test loading & running the same scenes?

 

[Lione]

Hi thx for your reply. I will test the Air Link vs VD more and comment again.
There has been a new Update with VD.

Actually i do not have many crashes in just Playing Scenes or using Looks in Play Mode in VR.

The "loading of Scenes" and mostly "Edit Mode" is the messy Part like switching Cloths and adding Plugins and often loading another ATOM Person.
VAM even in Desktop Mode is messy if you load a Scene and simply add another Person ATOM . That can be enough to Explode
the loaded ATOM Meshes or crash VAM. This is also on new Installations . I have clean Versions and my main Project VAM.
It works or does not work with no for me logic behavior.
If it works i can add several ATOMS with no problem. But its alwas trial and error and i have to not forget to save every Scene before i add another ATOM due to the behavior.

Is that Memory Leak a non fixable behavior ?
Or is it just that MeshedVR does not wants to fix that, or see no priority in fixing such a bad Application behavior?

I will try the behavior with resetting.
Perhaps it really behaves better then but actually flushing Processes and RAM should be automatical done loading a new scene ?
If not a direct Menu button "Close Scene" would be great to then flush / Reset insestad of the several clicks ride to USER Menu.
Or is there a shortkey to Reset ?

 

[Case]

Is that Memory Leak a non fixable behavior ?
Or is it just that MeshedVR does not wants to fix that, or see no priority in fixing such a bad Application behavior?

No idea - my impression was it has something to do with the Unity version that VaM 1.x is built upon. Also, my impression is that the 'hard reset' is the fix - Meshed isn't the 'Meh, I don't care about my userbase'-type, quite the opposite, so I'm assuming that this is the best he can currently do on VaM 1.x/Unity 2018.1.9f1. (Also, I'm expecting a more permanent fix in VaM 2.x - afaik, it'll run on a more modern Unity version)

Note that when I say 'my impression', I mean literally that. This is stuff I heard about here and there from discussions on the discord & the old reddit page. Take with truckloads of salt!!!

Perhaps it really behaves better then but actually flushing Processes and RAM should be automatical done loading a new scene ?

Yeeeeeaaaah ... except that there's usecases where the user might very much want to keep assets loaded in the memory - e.g. to cut down on load-time while mergeloading scenes?

If not a direct Menu button "Close Scene" would be great to then flush / Reset insestad of the several clicks ride to USER Menu.
Or is there a shortkey to Reset ?

My impression (Ha!) is that VaM is already doing lots of unloading unused assets "behind the scenes" (there's some indications to that if you look eg at the output_log.txt). Note also that there's a button to unload unused assets from memory on the person atom (physics 1 tab, iirc?).

TL;DR - afaik, there's already a lot being done to flush unused stuff out of memory, and there's at least two options for the user to do even more manually.

 

[Case]

The "loading of Scenes" and mostly "Edit Mode" is the messy Part like switching Cloths and adding Plugins and often loading another ATOM Person.
VAM even in Desktop Mode is messy if you load a Scene and simply add another Person ATOM . That can be enough to Explode
the loaded ATOM Meshes or crash VAM.

Errrrh - sorry if you already considered that, but this sounds to me like you may have loaded one person onto another without disabling collisions first? (By default, new person atoms will load in T-Pose, with the main controller centred at (0,0,0) - if that's where your other person atom happens to be at the time ... whelp ...)

IIRC, there's an option to automatically turn off colliders on any newly loaded atom to prevent exactly that?

Person atoms exploding was an issue with older VaM versions, before Meshed included the .... 'physics rescue system' (? Don't recall the name - it's on the person atom main tab). That's why you'll find the Extraldeous' "ExplosionLimiter-ns.cs" script on lots of older scenes. Back then, it could happen that person atoms would spaz out even if you moved them too fast. Haven't had any of that for a while now, though.

 

[Lione]

Hi thx a lot for the HInts also with the Collision.
I couldn't find a Setting in VAM for such a Option so I added this Script now https://hub.virtamate.com/threads/o...ms-spawned-with-collision-off-by-default.511/ which works great.
Now i have no more explotions at least from loading a 2nd ATOM.
So that behavior can be dumped.

Do you have any idea why the Screen flickers alltime in VAM in VR Mode loading a scene or loading a ATom ?
Mostly its during the Scene Content Loader is displayed.

 

[Case]

Hi thx a lot for the HInts also with the Collision.
I couldn't find a Setting in VAM for such a Option so I added this Script now https://hub.virtamate.com/threads/o...ms-spawned-with-collision-off-by-default.511/ which works great.
Now i have no more explotions at least from loading a 2nd ATOM.
So that behavior can be dumped.

Yay!

Do you have any idea why the Screen flickers alltime in VAM in VR Mode loading a scene or loading a ATom ?
Mostly its during the Scene Content Loader is displayed.

Ummmh ... yeah, I might, actually.

Do you load via SteamVR? There's an option in the graphics settings ... sorry, I don't recall the name right now, and atm, my Steam account is fxored (might have been nabbed - tl;dr: I can't log into Steam right now).

Sorry, I can't be more helpful right now than advising you to go read some FAQ on the SteamVR graphics settings & experimenting a bit.

EDIT: GOT IT! It's the option "Fade to grid on App hang" -> Disable that bugger!

I definitely did see behaviour like what you describe back when I still used SteamVR (these days, I use a batchscript to directly load VaM via Virtual Desktop), and disabling that option fixed it.

 

[Lione]

Hi thx for the HInt. I tested that with both Wired and Wireless with my Oculus Headsets.

I am in Beta Mode in Steam and Oculus

Wired: Rift S and Quest 2

VaM (OpenVR).bat ( Steam Opens ) : Screen and loader still flickers extreme while loading a Scene
VAM.EXE ( Oculus Opens ) : No flicker at all while loading.

Wireless: Quest 2 ( Virtual Desktop ) and Oculus Air Link

VaM (OpenVR).bat ( Steam Opens ) : Screen and loader still flickers extreme while loading a Scene
VAM.exe : Does not work to load VAM in VR then. It loads in Cinematic Screen.

Am i doing something wrong here loading VAM with Virtual Desktop so that also VAM.exe loads it in fully VR ?

Its great that it works for you but i wished it would work on my side too.
At least that i can open VAM.exe in VR Mode wireless since the Open VR Mode seems to be very Buggy.
I use Standard Steam Installations and havent installed any manual Open VR Software.

 

[Case]

Ok, just to first give you my "Virtual Desktop Setup"

-> I start VaM via VD using a .bat script that I created according to the tip that Guy Godin always attaches to the releasenotes on the VD-discord:
1) Create a file "Whateveryouwanttocallit.bat"
2) Open in text editor, create a line:
"[path to Virtual Desktop Streamer location]\VirtualDesktop.Streamer.exe" "[Path to Vam main directory]\VaM.exe"

On my HD, this looks like this:
"C:\Program Files\Virtual Desktop Streamer\VirtualDesktop.Streamer.exe" "C:\[Path to Vam main directory]\VaM.exe"

(yes, Vam.exe, not the "VaM (OpenVR).bat" -> if you open the latter, it just reads "START "VaM" VaM.exe -vrmode OpenVR", ie it opens the Vam.exe in OpenVR mode. )

Then I just doubleclick that .bat file and VD will start in VR mode without involcing SteamVR at all. IIRC, you can also drag the VaM.exe (or a link) onto the VD icon in "active apps section"-thingy in the right bottom of the screen? (sorry I can't remember the english name for it), but the way with the .bat file is more convenient.

 

[Case]

Hi thx for the HInt. I tested that with both Wired and Wireless with my Oculus Headsets.

I am in Beta Mode in Steam and Oculus

I don't even know whether I have both beta-modes active, tbh. Matters little to me since my way of starting VaM circumvents both - sorry if I can't be more helpful here.

(Also: I'm using a Quest 1, neither Rift, nor Quest 2 - dunno if that makes any difference)

Wired: Rift S and Quest 2

VaM (OpenVR).bat ( Steam Opens ) : Screen and loader still flickers extreme while loading a Scene
<...>

Just to be clear: You deactivated the "Fade to grid on app hang"-thingy?

I have to admit that it's been some months since I used SteamVR at all to run VaM - it could be that my information is no longer current, or that I 'misdiagnosed' your problem, or some setting changed in either SteamVR or Occulus ...

... sorry Lione, I wish I could be more helpful.

What I can genuinely affirm is that running VaM via Virtual Desktop (as I've detailed in my previous post), works for me, and that I experience no flickering during scene load. I can also affirm that disabling the "Fade to blablahblah" thingy resolved the my 'flickering while loading'-problem for me - but again, it's been a while since I've used SteamVR for running VaM at all.

P.S.: Just to be sure - what I was experiencing was an annoying 'flickering' during which the VaM-stream would alternate with the SteamVR '80s-themed Infinite Grid with Mountains in the Background' several times a second. I still see the VaM "stream" hanging while VaM is loading, but it's no longer trying to strobo me into puking.

 

[Lione]

Hi and big sry for the late reply. I wrote so many Topics and PMs here in the last weeks that i have entire overseen your reply.

I am very thankful for your replies

Yes i deativated the Grid Setting.

I will try your Launch tip above in https://hub.virtamate.com/threads/low-fps-on-headset.8573/post-22945
because if i do not use openVR the Issue is non existant.

I can also test it with Quest 1, i have that too

 

[Jiraiya]

ok, so I always used it with SteamVR. I clicked the existing .bat for openVR and SteamVR would open first.
I got HORRIBLE flickering flashing stroboscoping epilepsy inducing mess when loading.

I just changed to using the direct to Virtual Desktop via the batchfile listed above and ALL THAT IS GONE!
SteamVR does not open anymore, it goes directly into VaM from Virtual Desktop. The loading times seem quicker (subjective, no real timings done). and the flicker that made me feel sick before is gone while loading. That alone makes this the way I will run it from now on.
Frame rates seemed the same, maybe a 1 or 2 fps slower? Possibly. But I don't care, the lack of flashing and flickering when loading has made it possible for me to keep the headset on/ my eyes open when loading.

Thank you!

 

[Lione]

Hej , thx so much confirming the Flicker / Flashing behavior using openVR and awesome it works with the Hint above.

Tested it now, Case

and all works so awesome now using your Batch.

No more Flicker and Flashes

?

 

[Jiraiya]

Yeah, thanks again! That is literally the best tip I have had with VaM since I first downloaded it.
I wish I had known this at the start, the amount of pain I have been through getting strobed randomly giving me headaches.

Literally no reason not to run it direct with Virtual Desktop in this way if you have it.

 

[Case]

Hey guys!

You should really thank GuyGodin in the VD discord - I just grabbed the idea from there.

Glad it works for you!


P.S.: If you really don't want to use SteamVR anymore, go check out freerotate.cs ->

https://www.reddit.com/r/VAMscenes/comments/a1df7q

Nifty little plugin that I've come to love. Be advised that the way it does what it does is ... a bit crude (no slight to the auther intended) - it disables the VaM builtin navigation entirely and manually computes all the updates for the viewport. It can also be a bit ... fiddly when you use it together with Embody's improved possession feature - if you "pitch" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_principal_axes) the head beyond a certain angle, it'll confuse the movement axes.

It takes a little practise, but I can't use VaM withhout it anymore.

 

[Jiraiya]

Interesting, but I am not sure what it gives over the built in controls? I can freely move about and rotate already?

 

[Case]

Interesting, but I am not sure what it gives over the built in controls? I can freely move about and rotate already?

Gives you roll & pitch controls in addition to the standard yaw & strafe plus a shortcut to switch between edit & playmode. Oh, and it's much easier to control movement with only one controller, compared to the builtin control-scheme.

I like the pitch-control because you can readily "look down" - pretty handy during missionary scenes (the other option is to rotate the play.... thingy ... atom - that triangle-surface-thingy)


And also, who WOULDN'T want to play Fighter Pilot while oggling boo-bees?

 

[DarkFantasy]

Ok, just to first give you my "Virtual Desktop Setup"

-> I start VaM via VD using a .bat script that I created according to the tip that Guy Godin always attaches to the releasenotes on the VD-discord:
1) Create a file "Whateveryouwanttocallit.bat"
2) Open in text editor, create a line:
"[path to Virtual Desktop Streamer location]\VirtualDesktop.Streamer.exe" "[Path to Vam main directory]\VaM.exe"

On my HD, this looks like this:
"C:\Program Files\Virtual Desktop Streamer\VirtualDesktop.Streamer.exe" "C:\[Path to Vam main directory]\VaM.exe"

(yes, Vam.exe, not the "VaM (OpenVR).bat" -> if you open the latter, it just reads "START "VaM" VaM.exe -vrmode OpenVR", ie it opens the Vam.exe in OpenVR mode. )

Then I just doubleclick that .bat file and VD will start in VR mode without involcing SteamVR at all. IIRC, you can also drag the VaM.exe (or a link) onto the VD icon in "active apps section"-thingy in the right bottom of the screen? (sorry I can't remember the english name for it), but the way with the .bat file is more convenient.

I am using Virtual Desktop, Steam, and Sidequest.
- I open Sidequest
- In my Quest2 I open Virtual Desktop and click "Launch SteamVR"
- Then I click the VAM shortcut I added to Steam

Is there a better way and is this outdated? I say this as there is a pretty big FPS difference between this way and AirLink, in most cases Airlink provides about 25% more FPS. I hate that you cannot turn off screen mirroring though so until they fix that I dont see Airlink as being really usable in VAM. That one time you forget to turn your monitor off is that one time someone will be in eyeshot of your monitor. Besides, I really like the "Increase Color Vibrance" and "Increase Video Nominal Range" options. They make a big difference visually inside VAM. So I prefer Virtual Desktop anyway.

 

[Jiraiya]

I am using Virtual Desktop, Steam, and Sidequest.
- I open Sidequest
- In my Quest2 I open Virtual Desktop and click "Launch SteamVR"
- Then I click the VAM shortcut I added to Steam

Is there a better way and is this outdated? I say this as there is a pretty big FPS difference between this way and AirLink, in most cases Airlink provides about 25% more FPS. I hate that you cannot turn off screen mirroring though so until they fix that I dont see Airlink as being really usable in VAM. That one time you forget to turn your monitor off is that one time someone will be in eyeshot of your monitor. Besides, I really like the "Increase Color Vibrance" and "Increase Video Nominal Range" options. They make a big difference visually inside VAM. So I prefer Virtual Desktop anyway.

Oh good god no. Follow the instructions. Forget Sidequest! Why are you even opening that? Not required at all.
Forget SteamVR, it's annoying and just gets in the way adding a layer.
Clean boot the PC. Open Virtual Desktop and connect to your computer.
From the headset, double click the new .bat made as per the instructions above,
"C:\Program Files\Virtual Desktop Streamer\VirtualDesktop.Streamer.exe" "C:\[Path to Vam main directory]\VaM.exe"

Wait a bit, VaM opens directly in VR in Virtual Desktop. No sidequest and no SteamVR.
Better framerates, no flickering and flashing back and forth between screens.

I would like to add that if you haven't you check out the FidelityFX posts regarding extra frames. Do a nice steady test checking out your FPS in a scene
1) With your original setup and loading method no changes.
2) Loading direct with VD and the new bat file
3) Loading direct with VD and the new bat file after replacing the openVR.dll with the FidelityFX version.

You should see a boost each time

Also of note. If you are using Virtual Desktop is this a Quest2 headset? If so have you tried SSW in Virtual Desktop? It does frame interpolation and essentially doubles the visible frame rate. Note however that the framerate shown in VaM is the PRE doubled rate, so you are viewing twice what VaM says when SSW is on.

 

[Case]

Also of note. If you are using Virtual Desktop is this a Quest2 headset? If so have you tried SSW in Virtual Desktop? It does frame interpolation and essentially doubles the visible frame rate. Note however that the framerate shown in VaM is the PRE doubled rate, so you are viewing twice what VaM says when SSW is on.

@DarkFantasy: I haven't yet tested Airlink, so I can't comment on the advantage in speed you report.

However, it's definitely not necessary to run VD, Sidequest and FBs belated attempt to finally end their enduring humiliation at the hands of Guy Godin - one way of connecting both your sweeties will suffice.

I don't have a Quest 2, and know only the first thing about coding (starts with a "c", ysee?), but I've been in the VD discord a few times, and afaics, those folk are solid. No 'tude, no tall tales - simply a bunch of friendly uber-nerdy geniuses doing their thing and making the world a bit better. So I'd expect SSW to be as good as advertised.

And lastly, I wouldn't know if your way of doing stuff is outdated or mine - you confuse me with somebody who knows stuff, it seems. I'm just one of the dudes that occasionally manage to shut up for long enough to listen to the people who know stuff ...

 

[Jiraiya]

One of the reasons I continue to use Virtual Desktop (Which I am VERY glad I purchased) over Airlink is that the Oculus Dash is rendered on the PC not the Quest!
VD renders the environment in the headset. Oculus does it on the PC.
Not a lot more to say about that.