What does the VAM/VAMX on Steam release mean for this community?

[Kosmosx]

Your first decision Unity/DAZ there where it all started

Anyway Mesh we are here now not very far at all yes you reached big milestones and yes you made every right decision to buildup a sustainable community and grow talent out of it , you moved with Unitys roadmap and that gave others time to move on like you developing VAM in your Garage you can be sure the next projects are coming up they had enough time and especially the Asians are hunting it since day 1 and even more since Covid took a lot of their jobs.

Of course VAMx overall is much more performant as it never touches the entire complexity and that overall should work out for the Steam crowd and yeah all those creators hope for getting more revenue in from Steams Userbase.

 

[meshedvr]

You have lost all credibility to me with your statements. Your comments about Unity don't even make sense. You know nothing or very little about what is required to make an application like VaM. It isn't simply taking what Unity has, adding some Daz3d models, and boxing it up.

You hopefully don't intend it or it is a language issue, but I suggest you not say "Asians" in the way your doing. It sounds racist and that would be against our terms-of-use. I have no tolerance for that. You have done that multiple times in this thread. Consider this another warning to add to the pile you already have been given.

I'm not going to spend any more time on this thread. I have said what needs to be said about the VaM project, the VaM + vamX Steam product, the Hub, paid content, and many other things that are related. I think it is clear where I stand.

 

[Kosmosx]

First of all you need a fundamental stable CORE which Unity at the time you started VAM was far away from you pushed it to it's absolute C# Thread core limits, it was in the middle of the time when Unity decided we need to go all Platforms and Big data when others where allready processing Big data and Unity searched for ways to make C# and it's JIT compiling more efficient.

And it shows absolutely how VAM handles those big amount of Data now stucking everywhere from the Package Management to the Transcoder up to the UI

I wonder that no one wonders why it takes so long to integrate a new VAR when the render process is running in the background and not efficiently freeing its resources.

But this is also why i love VAM it tries something nobody had done and it works overall better than many would have thought and expected

 

[meshedvr]

Your credibility sinks further. Please stop making assumptions and spreading misinformation.

When I started VaM, Unreal was not even open sourced and was not an option. Unreal was also terrible for VR (still kind of is). Unity was a natural choice. While Unity's Physx implementation does have a main thread bottleneck in a specific way, Unity is not single threaded, and VaM is not either. I put in a lot of mulithreaded custom code for VaM beyond the Unity engine to handle many things, like supporting 1000s of realtime morphs at once, the special skinning system required for Daz3d Genesis 2 to look good (Triax), the skin collision system, and the soft-body system to give a few examples. I also accelerated a lot of things using the GPU, like the hair and clothing sim. All of that is fully custom, not standard Unity stuff. Load up VaM and look at your resource monitor. I'll save you the trouble.

One of my system's at idle:

Now with 1.X running a scene with 2 Person atoms in it:

Wow look at that. Every one of 10 cores and 20 threads is being utilized. You can see one core is 100% which is what causes the overall FPS limit. And that part was highly optimized to the point that very little further gains could be made without a rewrite of how skin physics and other things work. That could not be done without breaking existing 1.X scenes and assets. That is where 2.X comes in and why it exists. I say bring on the competition. I would love to have more applications in this space. I strongly believe 2.X will have a strong advantage over competitors in at least several areas and will have a long life ahead.

 

[Kosmosx]

I never said you didn't optimize what you put on top of it you did pretty excellent on that part managing and handling that amount of data on top of it and if you continue that on VAM 2 im pretty sure it will be blasting many competitors away that just go the standard branches of Unreal for example and think everything will be solved by magic and they will fuck Trinity or Neo like in that Awaken Demo Next ..

 

[meshedvr]

Finally you said something I agree with. Now I need to get to work on some important VaM work.

 

[Kosmosx]

BTW

I measure a bit different and not on Intel im aware of your overhead and problems with the 2019 Unity Core (5) under Singlepass constraints

 

[meshedvr]

Look at your GPU. It is at 100%. That scene is not CPU limited based one what you are showing. That is why there are no cores at 100%. The main thread or render thread is waiting on the GPU.

 

[Kosmosx]

Correct it is GPU Bound and its most importantly not moving

 

[VAMIC]

Yes I chose this path.

I chose to start Patreon so I could work on VaM full-time (great decision in retrospect, very risky and a bit scary at the time)
I chose to turn down venture capital funding and stay private to keep control and protect my goals and interests which include having a healthy community
I chose to create the Hub to end painful sharing of content on reddit and mega
I chose to make a content packaging system to make it easier for the community to make and distribute their creations
I chose to not monetize the Hub with a marketplace
I chose to divide free and paid sections so those that don't want to see paid content can easily avoid it
I chose to have a paid section on the Hub so those that spend a lot of time making quality content have more incentive or means to keep doing so (obvious downside is low effort paid content which I also do not like)
I chose to not charge Hub users for huge amounts of data download
I chose to not otherwise monetize the Hub (it has a ton of traffic)
I chose to partner with vamX for a retail product because vamX complements the base part of VaM and can reach users vanilla VaM cannot. This is also in response to tons of people asking for retail option because they don't like Patreon or other subscription models, some so much they pirated the content instead.

I stand by every one of these choices. I would do all of it again.

I don't even see what you are trying to say about the mega corps because none of that is relevant here. We are far from a mega corp and they have no control here. Valve is a mega corp, but If Valve pulls the plug on this product for some reason, VaM and vamX will continue on just as before, albeit with less $ to pay others to work on our projects.

I think what he's trying to say, albeit inelegantly, is that when you collect revenue you invite attention from people who want their cut of the money or who want to make sure you can't make money so they can instead. VAM is small now and has far less in common with large corporations, but don't sell yourself short because it could be a multimillion dollar business in just a few years. Because of the revenue, eventually someone will make you an offer you can't refuse. If you try to refuse, they'll take it from you or copy it. That's digital capitalism. This search for a wider audience and more money is the beginning and who knows where the road leads. I admire your ethics and the hard work you've put in, but there is and always has been a tension especially between creators and money on the internet. In immersive media, we are in the beginning of a phase of corporate capture that will only accelerate, particularly if and when we emerge from the current recession we're in. I think you're mostly doing the right things now and you seem to have answers for most of the questions that are being asked but it's better to have them asked here and to practice answering them than later when it's someone a lot less friendly who cares a lot less about VAM asking.

 

[Kosmosx]

And then you have those people Novelist that already see VAM as a threat for their own investments, those people are the most dangerous their egos destroy anything without questioning the consequences.

And yes im sometimes not easy but i have the same moral base as Mesh believe it or not and yeah i explode about some creators they behave exactly like those incoherent people and i meet a lot of those.
They Driving our Planet into a Dust Particle in Space, they have mostly Power im alot around the rich as well but they got corrupted i saw it a lot i have friends who where going this path stock exchange the hunting for Money at the highest level, sex parties, orgies all that in the end it destroyed them some escaped they just try to compensate all their decisions drugging themselves with SEX and unnatural drugs but overall most of them prefer SEX.
Though they are peasants yes they get wealthy but only because others made them created them people with even more power who play god this way traders are their IMPS and overall by now they wouldn't even need them anymore digital automated trading is controlling most everything but they love to see people become like them and they also love to see how they destroy themselves what they have once been and in most cases nothing is left what you once knew.

Only very few brake this chain of self corruption and the Greed implanted inside of them.

 

[SPQR]

you're all superfluosly wrong, come debate me in the offtopic area of the forum

on more on-topic & wholesome matters:

what's with the steam banner? Is it an user-engagement throttle or an hommage to the early roots of vam? either way it's lovely!

 

[Ben-g Copper]

Congrats on VAM being released on Stream. I hope this will attract more new users to the Vam HUB community and skilled creators, especially LGBT+ group. I feel that the amount of gay content here is very low. The patriarchy occupies a large part of the world of pornography. I would be very happy if someone made more male character into Hub than there are a handful at this point.

I think VAM would be fine even if bumped by the crowd to talk about morality and crime in the future. Moral standards and boundaries are things that change over time according to people's opinions. VAM allows us to have sex to limits of our imagination that we cannot achieve in the real world. And I think that's not a problem as long as me or you or anyone doing this in a careful way not to negatively affect others in the real world.

and especially the Asians are hunting it since day 1 and even more since Covid took a lot of their jobs.

I'm an Asian who doesn't primarily speak English. Oh, what's that? What do you mean? I'll act like I don't understand each other

 

[DJ]

I'm an Asian who doesn't primarily speak English. Oh, what's that? What do you mean? I'll act like I don't understand each other

It's not you. I'm a native English speaker and I have a hard time understanding Kosmosx as well.

 

[bigcat]

VAM does seem to have gone from someone putting up a plex server and inviting their friends to putting up a commercial version with tens of thousands of viewers invited on a paying level in facebook adverts. The one isn't going to get noticed, the other will draw eyes that may not view everything kindly. Too many spot on copies of heavily owned video game characters with names and even logos and too many porn stars when porn companies are trying to leverage their own stars into their own products and too many spot on celebs and even a few questions about content if you follow the rabbit trails.
No concern for straight users of the product but it seems like it might be a bad time to create content that anyone might object to in the world of corporations and lawyers. Too high a risk and too little return as the real gaming world notices our little, tiny section of having fun.
I so hope I'm wrong. Thanks to everyone for creating and commenting and liking and stuff. Great community.

 

[PodFlower 3.0]

I hate to say this but, I have a huge feeling that there's also a community of underage content creators that don't want this game going mainstream at all so that it doesn't draw attention to their creations and/or supporters. I fear that (I actually don't fear nothing) but I fear that theses people may even try to get this game banned early on from steam by pointing fingers in other directions. If the game gets banned, it's probably most likely an inside job (people from the community) rather than some random "soccer mom". Someone who doesn't post on the hub, but posts somewhere else.

I also thought about some of the many possible motives behind some of these complaints. One possible motive is that some don't want the game to go mainstream (on steam) so that they can have the freedom to create and consume their desires freely without the interference of the world of corporations and lawyers. These desires can range from something casual, to something extremely illegal. Some people in the community may view steam as an unpleasant surprise that compromises those freedoms. They may fear that some of the content on the hub may bring attention to the actual bigger picture. Therefore, the real fear is the games exposure... and I mean complete exposure!

With the amount of sexual freedom that this engine gives, there are a lot of extremely crazy content that we do not see on the hub. Things that you wouldn't want to imagine. Like worst than jeffrey dahmer shit. These type of people are not worried about some look a likes.

 

[Kosmosx]

Multiple People Multiple Reasons surely 1 Group
That group is pretty much there from the beginning trying to get influence and they test us as well
and not a few content creators fulfill their wishes knowingly/unknowingly sometimes hard to judge within the overall complexity

Though the Edge cases become the Problem everything starting at 150 cm

It is questionable how many creators are fully aware and how many target this group directly

though some where identified pretty fast it was way to obvious what and who they targeted

And they Fear VAM 2.0 a lot knowing that they will be even easier ID able

 

[SPQR]

If the game gets banned,

looks like you were right, seems it was taken down on steam

 

[keycode]

I hate to say this but, I have a huge feeling that there's also a community of underage content creators that don't want this game going mainstream at all so that it doesn't draw attention to their creations and/or supporters. I fear that (I actually don't fear nothing) but I fear that theses people may even try to get this game banned early on from steam by pointing fingers in other directions. If the game gets banned, it's probably most likely an inside job (people from the community) rather than some random "soccer mom". Someone who doesn't post on the hub, but posts somewhere else.

I also thought about some of the many possible motives behind some of these complaints. One possible motive is that some don't want the game to go mainstream (on steam) so that they can have the freedom to create and consume their desires freely without the interference of the world of corporations and lawyers. These desires can range from something casual, to something extremely illegal. Some people in the community may view steam as an unpleasant surprise that compromises those freedoms. They may fear that some of the content on the hub may bring attention to the actual bigger picture. Therefore, the real fear is the games exposure... and I mean complete exposure!

With the amount of sexual freedom that this engine gives, there are a lot of extremely crazy content that we do not see on the hub. Things that you wouldn't want to imagine. Like worst than jeffrey dahmer shit. These type of people are not worried about some look a likes.

I suppose you know very well that [edited: or "those" ] community [lot of growing-up dazed3d communities] of pedoaddicts, can you please post a link? or do you insist for policy motivations in keeping this questionable horrible and morally illegal territory unknown for us all puritan and good souls citizens of porn skies?

 

[keycode]

looks like you were right, seems it was taken down on steam

don't overvalue the "morality" of that steam-gang, meshed himself was speaking about this event: a normal burocratic (?) issue. Or something like that. Plus... Why the steam-bazar should ban a game simply because of an average, standard idiot user-creator posting average idiot polygons pedo-stuff? Or they should close and arrest all daz3d guys too ?? ps: what about that last genesis 9 "growing-up" update? is it worth spending some dollars for buying or is it so dangerous too for our pure porn-soul salvation???

 

[RandomVAMUser]

I suppose you know very well that community of pedoaddicts, can you please post a link? or do you insist for policy motivations in keeping this questionable horrible and morally illegal territory unknown for us all puritan and good souls citizens of porn skies?

It is not really a secret (or unknown) that sick/twisted users do exist (not that hard to google it).
IMO this is true for any adult game/software out there.

If you wanna find those "insane in the membrane" creators... maybe start on pixivFANBOX.
You can figure out what tag to search for...

 

[keycode]

It is not really a secret (or unknown) that sick/twisted users do exist (not that hard to google it).
IMO this is true for any adult game/software out there.

If you wanna find those "insane in the membrane" creators... maybe start on pixivFANBOX.
You can figure out what tag to search for...

I hope my post was not misunderstood: I was just trying some ironic point of view about that. I know pixiv, but I prefere 100 times better vam, when/if I feel enough pervert ... vam hub is still listing some stuff that seem created just for the fantasy of a sadic middle-age sick (in the brain) inquisitor. I accept fantasy, but I prefere average real and passionate sex, even when it is polygon-made.

 

[SPQR]

simply because of an average, standard idiot user-creator posting average idiot polygons pedo-stuff

is that why it was banned?! it would be kinda ridiculous. i mean you ban the person posting, not the game. what happens if I go posting weird shit on GTA V...

but I wouldn't be surprised. they probably do risk assesment stuff. they watch for a while how much they earn out of a new game and what's the vibe and cut out what doesn't fit and that might hurt them. it's their right to do so to be fair

if it was banned for screenshots that means I lowkey saved vamx from being banned on launch day! i'll add a cape to the avatar if that proves to be the case

 

[PodFlower 3.0]

I suppose you know very well that [edited: or "those" ] community [lot of growing-up dazed3d communities] of pedoaddicts, can you please post a link? or do you insist for policy motivations in keeping this questionable horrible and morally illegal territory unknown for us all puritan and good souls citizens of porn skies?

No, found pixiv that you speak of last week. Googled my male asset and saw that it was used in a scene that I do not approve of. I was traumatized and tried to report. If I were you, I would stay far away from underaged content. Seems a little questionable to me to ask for a link. Also, Seems like reverse phycology to get a link. I don't knowwww about youuuuu. Questionable XD

 

[keycode]

No, found pixiv that you speak of last week. Googled my male asset and saw that it was used in a scene that I do not approve of. I was traumatized and tried to report. If I were you, I would stay far away from underaged content. Seems a little questionable to me to ask for a link. Also, Seems like reverse phycology to get a link. I don't knowwww about youuuuu. Questionable XD

ok, I see that you were not reading my answers or can be, my english is a little bit macaroni ... by the way, I am not muslim, I hate men (beasts) that use to marry children, I am not japanese and I don't spend my few cents for child-porn: the only thing I appreciate about their absurd, incredibly focused on nightmare graphic, on violent or ridicolous porn-market, mangas or "for adult" stuff (like you underlined so often with priority on pedo arguments, on showing just parossistically submissive child-like grown women) is that they have an even more absurd rule that limits, or that WAS limiting what they can sell to western clients (but of course it's just formal, not a real restriction). Finally I hope I am not so idiot as you are supposing I am simply because I say that I know what is daz3d and Zevo's morphs, pixiv, renpy stuff and finally the best of all, our sweet, canonical, beloved moderated pervert Vam bazar.

EDITED: sorry, you were correct, I am for sure an idiot spendthrift 100% because I was "upgrading" a perfect honest i7 12700 to a macho real puritan cow-boy i7 13700k .... yes a big dick hot intel K processor, and because of the new intel-toy I was installing an even more delusional pervert cooler noctua d15s (with double fan, oh boy!!!). And the worst is that I don't regret that, at all and yes, my average faps per second rate increased a lot with the help of some moderated puritan oveclock too. What can I say more? the d15 set it is very very erotic, my case it is so silent when I play vam, that I can hear my asmatic breathing even with the VR headset on, but the "old" u12a noctua was also pretty good and I could save spending for the d15 because the difference for the cooling it is not so huge as the size difference.