Plugins + Scripts VAMMoan 2 (teaser)

[hazmhox]

Yeap that's what I thought. I guess someone would need to update it in the future if he drops the support completely.

 

[Waslikethem]

Yeap that's what I thought. I guess someone would need to update it in the future if he drops the support completely.

The two of you worked really well together — he handled the logic behind the female stimulation, and you brought in the voice stages, breathing, and all the expressive layers. Together, you created something genuinely special.
Your capabilities definitely don’t fall short. You could take his place without much trouble if it came to that. It’s really just a question of whether you have the patience and nerves to see it through.

I can code too, but I never really got into Virt-A-Mate development since the community already covers everything I personally need.
Mostly, I just make my own Unity assets when I can’t find what I’m looking for — buying 3D models and importing them into VaM through Unity.

 

[hazmhox]

I actually had zero connection with BL dev. I chatted a bit with Cheesy at some point (on subjects that had zero connection to BL actually), but that's pretty much all. He choosed to use VAMM himself and did all the choices for his project. So thank you, but I generally avoid taking any credit for something I did not do... Cheesy is the only one responsible for his great implementation in BL ^^

 

[Waslikethem]

I actually had zero connection with BL dev. I chatted a bit with Cheesy at some point (on subjects that had zero connection to BL actually), but that's pretty much all. He choosed to use VAMM himself and did all the choices for his project. So thank you, but I generally avoid taking any credit for something I did not do... Cheesy is the only one responsible for his great implementation in BL ^^

You already have the source code for the VAMMoan logic and how it behaves. I noticed it’s built around distinct female moaning stages — low, medium, hard, and climax — with triggers firing when certain conditions or thresholds are met.
The real blocker is still the same: female voices. And damn, that part is hard. I honestly can’t find a clean solution for it.
Like I mentioned before, I tried ElevenLabs. You can subscribe and access premium female voices, which sound amazing for spoken content — but I’m not convinced they work well for generating actual moans from text alone.
The ElevenLabs Studio can generate moans, but… how do I put it politely… they’re acceptable, at best. The process itself is exhausting — digging through 100 takes to find one good moan, then trying to find another that actually matches it in tone and intensity.

Do you have any ideas on how we could overcome this challenge?

 

[hazmhox]

You already have the source code for the VAMMoan logic and how it behaves. I noticed it’s built around distinct female moaning stages — low, medium, hard, and climax — with triggers firing when certain conditions or thresholds are met.

Ha sure! But I wanted to be sure that it was not misinterpreted as a collab for BL ^^

I honestly can’t find a clean solution for it.

Well, you can assume that if you can't find a solution, I already brainstormed and looked for/searched for solutions ten times more

Do you have any ideas on how we could overcome this challenge?

Truthfully? There is no real "challenge to overcome here" (in a way)... The solutions are here, it's only a matter of doing it... you "perceive" this as a challenge because your goal is to solve this without spending an absurd amount of money which is required for the level we want for VAMM2 level of detail. You kind of dodged the commission part because you kind of know where this is going... you know that it's probably several digits and that you can't afford that : )

And I understand that you can't do that, as the end consumer/player... I'm just pointing out the obvious reason, why even official VAM content can't provide like a 100 voices library

Anyway, the two solutions are: hiring voice talents. Or creating a DLM to train a tool to generate them.

• For the first one, it's easy, just have money and do it.
• For the second one, let's assume we're not silicon valley bros thinking they can take everything for free and "fair use" and we love voice actors and we want to licence their work properly for creating a DLM tech. It's highly probable in the state of the industry (especially NSFW indie voice actors) that :
  • We're either gonna get mostly "nope" for licencing for DLM training
  • Or we're gonna get a licencing fee so massive that doing a commission would be cheaper

And this is not accounting for the time I'm spending just to manage all this, from recording ( directing actor/tresses ) to final files ( getting files, verifying them, doing retakes if needed, slicing them, mixing, implementing in Unity ). Which is a massive amount of time.
More or less, the most appropriate choice is what we did with meshed: hiring indies.

Now, this only accounts for a simple observation, ie: "let's have more voice". But there is a problem on that, no matter what we do, it will never... be enough. No matter if we have 2, 5 10 or 50. People will always find that it does not fit their needs... because they just want this or that voice that they like/fantasize about. This is something we can't objectively provide. VAM 2 voice lib might offer a handful of voices, but at some point, we can't provide a neverending flow of voices... and I'm definitely not gonna spend my VAM time on slicing samples... I have different domains I want and like to work on, and I want to keep my sanity and creative freedom ^^

The only possibility I see VAMM2 becoming very wide and massive, is if people were contributing to it ( content and time, ready made libraries etc ).

But to give you an idea, I've started working on VAMM1 at the end of 2019... have you seen many people bringing high fidelity moan libraries since then? Pretty much no one did. And that's not like I'm not a cool person. I've given many times the requirements for the technical aspects ( audio files schemes, formats etc ) anyone could have made some custom libs and asked me just to drop the files into the release. At the end of the day, it's only a combination of means : money, time and engineering skills... and apparently, it seems that there is pretty much nobody willing (or able) to do that.

 

[Waslikethem]

Ha sure! But I wanted to be sure that it was not misinterpreted as a collab for BL ^^




Well, you can assume that if you can't find a solution, I already brainstormed and looked for/searched for solutions ten times more




Truthfully? There is no real "challenge to overcome here" (in a way)... The solutions are here, it's only a matter of doing it... you "perceive" this as a challenge because your goal is to solve this without spending an absurd amount of money which is required for the level we want for VAMM2 level of detail. You kind of dodged the commission part because you kind of know where this is going... you know that it's probably several digits and that you can't afford that : )

lol, “I’ve dodged that” — that was a good one.

Just to be clear: I don’t mind spending money on something that lays on the table, it will be shame not to support you (you gave us VAMMoan1 and VAMMoan2 free and people using that ever since).
Anyone who doesn’t respect the amount of work you’ve put into this clearly underestimates the effort and skill involved.

If you were selling custom voice packs, do you really think I wouldn’t buy them? You’d be wrong.
This has nothing to do with money, though. I’ve never created a Virt-A-Mate plugin — I didn’t even try — mainly because the community already built everything I could ever ask for, and honestly, more than that.
When you're saying that people didn’t contribute voices for your plugin is a strong point. I’d genuinely love to help — I just don’t know how. You have far more knowledge than I do when it comes to actually bringing something like this to life, so if you tell me what’s needed, we can look at the cost and feasibility together.
We could even start small. You might create a section explaining what’s needed, how much funding would help move things forward, and let people contribute. I’m sure the community would step up.
That’s really why I asked about solutions. You said the solutions are right beneath your feet — so I’m wondering why everything is still on hold.

Make a bold move and earn from it, as you should.

It's funny, people here creating average models that basically almost all the time looks the same and charge money for it at their patreon, you Fuck And Dump Them.
You on the other hand created a presistant plugin that people using 24/7, never earned a penny.

 

[hazmhox]

lol, “I’ve dodged that” — that was a good one.

You on the other hand created a presistant plugin that people using 24/7, never earned a penny.

Because of two reasons:

• Creative freedom. I don't want to have to report to anybody. If I want to work 6 months on a scene, I can do so. With a patreon or even simply a donation system, people expect to have results. I mean, even without it, you clearly are the living proof that you think you can eventually come, and ask for a consistent result/update flow. I'm obviously saying this kindly, you are kind, respectful and all... but you get my point : )
• People don't pay. And my biggest statistical approach on this is on game changing plugins massively used by the community and several numbers I had from well know "big" creators I discussed with over the years. Most creators having created and supported them barely made a serious "side income". Acid at some point, was not even at a 200$ a month for a plugin downloaded millions of times and used across hundreds of scenes.
  
  So sacrificing my freedom over 200 bucks a month is absolutely not worth it.
  
  Sadly, I suppose you realize it yourself, you can make money with "fuck and dump" content ( looks, mocaps ). You can't with plugins (no matter how widly they are used).

so I’m wondering why everything is still on hold

Because I'm not here to be only the VAMMoan guy... and litterally don't want to spend my days on that. I'm surprised it isn't already obvious after my first couple of answers ^^
I want to do VAMStory, I want to do enviros, and VFX, SFXs libraries... scenes, collabs and more. Have fun. Not make this a mindless job that will most definitely burn me out at some point.

The real reason on why I'm on VAM today is not even because of the porn... it's because I can do whatever I want in a somewhat immersive sandbox. I can have fun myself on litterally dozen of different creative systems, express myself in scenes and bring cool stuffs to the community on top of that.

And then you got the second part to this: I'm in the rare creators that still support plugins that are like "legacy" (if I can say so... super old if you prefer another way of saying it), and I'm trying to keep that flow. And I'm not gonna on top of all that work, for all my plugins, have to organize, manage and motivate people for a community driven contribution for voices. This is a lot of work (again), and could like anything else... completely fail. Which would be on my end, a complete, pure and simple loss of time.

I’m sure the community would step up.

I've been here since the first alpha. Your hub sub is from 2 years ago... but maybe you were here way before I don't know. Trust me when I tell you that, the community stepping up is probably a biased perception of the reality. People pay for mocap, people pay for looks. Beyond that, it's unlikely to ever see the community doing mad things if it requires more than "hit that discord emoji"... at least, from my experience since VAM exists. People could prove me wrong, but it would be quite surprising to see that changing any day... especially at the level required to push several new voices for VAMM2.

If I'm doing such diverse content it's basically because there were gaps in the content creation on VAM. Gaps that were never filled over the years. We're in the "if you want something done well, do it yourself" situation here. This shows that, beyond a handful of extremely motivated people trying to push the boundaries of VAM, the "average" is not gonna step up (no matter the reasons, lack of technical knowledge, money, time, ideas... whatever)

But, I will never go against people trying to achieve this. My offer still stands, the documentation for creating voices can be made available, and if anyone was suddenly trying to bring the community together, make voices libraries, I would absolutely support the idea.

As long as my only involvement in this is giving the doc, grabbing the final package, putting it in my project and building the final bundle.

This is all I can offer

You on the other hand created a presistant plugin that people using 24/7, never earned a penny.

What can I say! I'm a living moron who loves to give free means to people to get a boner!

 

[Waslikethem]

What can I say! I'm a living moron who loves to give free means to people to get a boner!

I don’t see you as a moron at all. I actually created my first plugin back in the Koikatu days. I mostly kept it to myself — I posted about it on their Discord, and whenever someone was “thirsty” for it, I’d just DM it to them along with a short installation guide.
I was a huge fan of Koikatu and Artificial Girl 3 from Illusion.jp long before I eventually invested in a ~$7k setup and installed Virt-A-Mate for the first time — the ultimate sandbox sex game.

When I made that first plugin, it focused on triggering sound effects — lewd ones I won’t go into details, lol. But it was something no one else had made at the time. I wanted it, so I just went ahead and built it myself (it was pretty basically 'lews sfx sounds', get into coding that game was a headache).


I believe in sharing. If I have something good to offer — something I created in my free time — I’m happy to give it away. The exception is artists who genuinely earn it, like some of the creators here (Vecterror comes to mind). He’s consistent, skilled, and absolutely deserves what he makes.
As for money: I have a real-life job. Five dollars here or ten dollars there won’t change anything for me — unless, again, I were as consistent and driven as some of the really dedicated creators in this community.

You did an amazing job with the plugin you created, genuinely.
The reason I keep coming back to the idea of improving VAMMoan2 is simple: you’re the only one. Literally.

So when you say you might stop, it means we need to think about alternatives — because there isn’t really anyone else filling that space.

Still - Thank you.

 

[hazmhox]

Thank you for your heart warming and very kind words @Waslikethem <3 <3 <3

So when you say you might stop, it means we need to think about alternatives

I did not say I was gonna stop, I said we weren't gonna provide an endless stream of voices. On top of that I might not have been clear/thorough enough: VAMM2 dev is not a priority because the teaser is meant to stay a teaser. The plugin itself is more or less what will be in VAM 2, but for any potential new things, I prefer to not spend time on VAM1 and do that when VAM2 is ready to work on that.

That being said eXcite is moving forward, this is a new toy you could enjoy...

But to contextualize a bit more, knowing the industry prices, you could roughly estimate like a 7K/8K lines scenario with a handful of actors to around 30 to 60K$ with a professional studio like Side.
If you look at the indie NSFW rates, you can imagine that several voices, without giving you the exact numbers (maybe like 5/6 voices)... is in the 5 digits.

You can't realistically hope that meshed would provide 15 or 20 or more voices. You cannot litterally include tens of thousands of dollars of voice only, compared to the rest of the project.

So all I was trying to avoid saying was, don't expect VAMM2 (or VAM2 vanilla content if you prefer) to provide more than a handful of voices. Not "we're stopping updates".

It's a downside of VAMM2 really... the detailed system with every intensity featuring all behaviors make this not cheap at all. VAMM1 had the pros of featuring only 5 type of sounds, which made a library for a single character and me negociating with random strangers having somewhat "okish" recording to use it for free, possible.

But just the sheer amount of samples AND voice lines, makes VAMM2 a complex plugin to update without working with serious actors. It's a side effect of having a very cool voice system I guess! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But, it does not mean that VAMM2 cannot provide basic voices.

The VAM2 version will provide the legacy voices inside of it, but they will stay "as they are". So anybody could bring a "basic" voice in it without having to provide the "VAMM2" style library which is very expensive. So this could be a way to increase the database... but you know, with simpler voices : )

 

[RNDVAMVRuser]

You definitely should add random choice from the list, it will simplify stuff.
Something like : Play Random VA Immediate / Schedule Random VA

 

[hazmhox]

You definitely should add random choice from the list, it will simplify stuff.
Something like : Play Random VA Immediate / Schedule Random VA

Planned and actually implemented in the beta I have locally