Spam of promotional resources

[SPQR]

Hi,

I noticed this thread https://hub.virtamate.com/threads/s...urces-containing-only-videos-or-images.35394/ and was wondering about some stuff like that too. Thread got locked for some reason so asking here. One of the mods @hazmhox mentioned there some stuff that scared me a bit:

You've entered a "grey area" by bending the rules here.

Some sneaky creators already tried that to pad their reviews...

Yeah, I know you a bit, and my reaction was written in a more "general" way than targeted to you specifically.

And if you have someone respectful "not abusing" but doing something that is somewhat bending the rules of paid content... every sneaky "not cool" creator will dive into the breach.

@hazmhox first congratulations on becoming a moderator!

Secondly, I was wandering if it's ok for me to post each of my plugin updates as a separate resource. Like instead of having a resource named Alive at version 35, to have 35 separate resources with more unique tags & stuff in the title to appear more often in searches. And also as a way to avoid negative reviews for X version to affect X+1 version, to keep the slate clean for each update.

Would that be considered sneaky? Could there be repercussions against me if I do that? (I'd post in the Plugins > Paid section)

I'd hate it to be called all those things too so asking in advance. Thank you!

 

[hazmhox]

Hey @SPQR !
Thanks!

First, don't get obsessed by the "sneaky" term. That was a way to say "someone trying to explicity bend the rules and abusing it" (someone that has bad intentions). Anybody here is allowed mistakes, everyone on the team wants to elevate the quality of hub and the overall experience for everyone (creators and players/users).

Don't forget I'm french, my sentences could be influenced by the fact I'm not a native english speaker. The "sneaky" term was used as a broad term to talk about people that are definitely trying to abuse something. We don't "call" anybody anything as soon as there is something to moderate

So yeah, don't get scared over a term... the team members will always kindly explain why a choice is made. And definitely not put a creator in some kind of "watch list" as soon as they're trying something that does not fit (or is not defined in) the hub rules : )

Anyway, this is something really oddly specific. I'd say that would not be against the existing rules to post 35 versions of a single resource.
But this is kind of extremely counter-productive for either the final user/player or the creator.

Splitting a resource per version means:

• No update notification
• Dozens of different resources to juggle with

Avoiding "bad ratings" by splitting over several resources should not be your concern tho. If you're posting a broken update, and you're reacting fast to fix it... the moderators are always here to listen and remove useless / not constructive reviews. We're here to moderate all type of content: creators AND users/players.

On the other hand, if you're releasing something broken... (let's say it's widely used by the community...) and you take like 3 months to fix it, do not answer to people, and leave it that way. Then your bad reviews/ratings are valid.

You should focus on easing the life of your fans and players using your content. Not make it harder just to ensure you have 5 stars. A great content will never suffer from a couple of subjective reviews anyway.

I'll report back to the team to see where everyone stands on that. And confirm what you can or cannot do about that.

PS : As mentionned a bit above, the moderation team is here to moderate AND help people. If you have any doubt... don't hesitate to ask on #general or #help of the discord server and/or @ a moderator.

 

[hazmhox]

Side note: the search engine should be improved... this could be a request done for hub improvements. You shouldn't have to change the way you post resources to have a proper hit on the search engine.

 

[SPQR]

@hazmhox I don't think there was anything lost in translation, you were pretty straightforward in calling out that creator for bending rules in multiple ways.

I don't understand how you had such a harsh stance on that but you're confused about my example, which is very clear, and you need to run it by other people. Why are you not committed to calling out what I suggested as "grey area" and sneaky too? Are you saying that posting a couple of videos in a section where people posted videos for years raised flags for you, but what I'm suggesting does not?

Let me put it in a simpler way. The only advantage I'd get by doing that is that people will see my resource way more often when they scroll through the resources. Every few pages they scroll, they'll see my resource again and again. Is that bending rules? Is that sneaky? Is that something you're against and will you call me out for it, like you did the other creator?

Or is that something you let slide depending on who the creator is?

 

[hazmhox]

I think you might read again then, Literally quoting the only moment in the initial post I'm using "sneaky":

Some sneaky creators already tried that to pad their reviews...

The sentence refers to actual people who created fake duped accounts to review their own resources. I'm refering directly to people who have tried to "scam" users downloading content on the hub, by padding the reviews with high notes and get a better spot on the resources pages. This does not refer to VRDolls at any point.

But we're not here to discuss that are we? We're trying to answer to your question right?

I'm not at all confused by your example (I don't know where you get that from my answer).

You're answering your own question, I don't know what you're trying to achieve here.
If you're starting to post every single ressource as a standalone resource per version... this obviously feels spammy for users. Picture that done by all of us creators around, and you got a neverending thread of duplicated resources.

I just answered your question to raise the problems of doing that, but you're smart enough to conclude that this is not something that would elevate the hub and would be accepted on a large scale.

The moderation team as the exact same rules for anybody. There is no "letting it slide" because creator X or Y as won a contest or is part of the VaM team or has released a lot of content.

Interesting thing:

where people posted videos for years raised flags

The trend of posting videos was pretty limited up until now. We are currently discussing the problem of videos and the fact that the hub is not a video hosting service.
The video upload system is here to give a tool to illustrate releases, post a short tutorial... anything that helps using a resource. This most certainly will be updated and mentionned in the rules in the future.

 

[hazmhox]

Don't misunderstand my goal here, I'm really trying to understand what you wanna know : )

 

[SPQR]

If you're starting to post every single ressource as a standalone resource per version... this obviously feels spammy for users. Picture that done by all of us creators around, and you got a neverending thread of duplicated resources.

Picture the #1 paid content creator on the hub you're moderating doing that, and only that, for years.

I want to do it too since it works incredibly well for @vamX but I'm worried that if I do it and some sad dude makes a thread about it, you'll jump in there and make me feel like a sneaky bastard and give me lectures about grey areas..

So can I do it too or do I have to make friends with some of you guys first? What music do you like btw?

Or are there double standards?

 

[SPQR]

The moderation team as the exact same rules for anybody. There is no "letting it slide" because creator X or Y as won a contest or is part of the VaM team or has released a lot of content.

Sorry, missed that part. I guess that answers it and it should be ok for everyone to do that and none of you will freak out about it or suddenly change the rules.

Thanks for your help! Feel free to close this thread too

 

[DJ]

Don't mistake every syllable out of a moderators mouth for official hub policy, SPQR. New cases and situations (such as this one) are always popping up that we don't have policy for yet. You may get some moderators first impression off the top of their head, and it may not exactly line up with what a final policy is decided to be.

Also don't assume we have an encyclopedic knowledge of every post and every users posting strategies. We don't. If a policy is set and you notice someone else seems to be violating it with impunity, it's not because some users are exempt from the rules. It's because we haven't noticed the behavior.

 

[hazmhox]

[...] you'll jump in there and make me feel like a sneaky bastard and give me lectures about grey areas..

So can I do it too or do I have to make friends with some of you guys first? What music do you like btw?

Or are there double standards?

Please, read again my answers and avoid making me say things or words I did not pronounce. I've quoted the context again for the "sneaky" word use, and you keep interpreting the meaning as you wish even after a factual explaination of my intentions. I've shown respect and tried to answer as thoroughly as I could to your concerns... so that would be really nice to tone down the borderline "trollish" stance : )

DJ summarized the rest pretty well. We will address that new case and find the proper policy for it (and everyone will have to respect it).

or suddenly change the rules

TOS on pretty much any plateform (social media, video hosting, image hosting... whatever) are updated quite regularly. No one reads them, and you have to accept to continue using their services. VaM's hub allows anyone to discuss about issues with the team and help the community become better... still it is an extremely small team that has to moderate a lot of content, we have to adapt things that we thought could work a certain way and does not anymore.

So yup, rules can change and evolve over time... that's how online services work : )

 

[SPQR]

Don't mistake every syllable out of a moderators mouth for official hub policy, SPQR. New cases and situations (such as this one) are always popping up that we don't have policy for yet. You may get some moderators first impression off the top of their head, and it may not exactly line up with what a final policy is decided to be.

Fine, I won't do it.

I was just curious about all that talk about grey areas, bending rules, running ads, setting a bad example, sneaky creators, etc. and if new mod will back that talk and call out people that overtly do that, or if that moderation is reserved for new creators he doesn't know and are less inconvenient to pick on.

Please, read again my answers and avoid making me say stuff or words I did not pronounce.

so that would be really nice to tone down the borderline "trollish" stance : )

that's how online services work : )

ok ok ok

 

[SPQR]

Please, read again

Ok so I took your advice re-read all your messages and found this that you wrote a while ago:

I think that most of the paid things we've seen recently are crap. And we discussed a while ago about that on the discord. There are a ton of new VaMers that come up with a patreon with 5/10$ tiers and their first models look like they have invested one hour or two of work into them.

I won't make paid content in the future, VaM is just a hobby. But seeing guys (or gals) coming up with paid content that is average at best makes me

It outlines better my concern I had as it suggests that you had, and maybe still have, some deep issues with a lot of new VaMers that have patreon and how they value their time. It explains why you have no problem going in lecture mode and talking about sneaky creators, bending rules, grey areas when it's a new creator that you admitedly don't know much about, even making them quit and be complacent about it. But when I give an example that's as clear and specific as possible of an older creator doing what I just wrote, all of a sudden those concerns you had about creators setting a bad example or bending the rules no longer apply and you have nothing to say about it.

Hopefully going in your new duty as a moderator of this site you'll be able to let that go and be moderate about these kind of things. If you're trying to make the hub better I think that's awesome, but if you're gonna do it I just hope that you'll remember that it's your duty as a moderator to be impartial and fair about it. You picking on new creators, lecturing them, making them quit and not even apologize about it, all while staying silent about older creators doing that is a bit concerning and I hope you understand why I raised this issue.

 

[hazmhox]

[...]

Oh.my.god. Seriously?

I think you really have a problem with the meaning of written words and sentences... and systematically trying to find a meaning that does not exists in what I'm trying to convey... that kinda fits your argument. (and keep going back on a meaning I've literally contextualized 4 times).

You can search on the discord how many time I have said I like and support A BUNCH of paid creators. You're taking two sentences out of their context and making somewhat magically become my "general" stance on paid content.

- VRDolls was not a new creator, far from new actually.
- I knew VRDolls since we even were going to work on VAMM together at some point like over a year ago
- Show me where I was complacent about VRDolls leaving
- Since you insist, show me where the lecture was. The only thing I said was based on the actual rules of the hub about free content being used as a promotional tools.

I don't know you... I so much don't know you that I had to look at your content after your post this morning. This reveals how much I looked at your "background" before answering and adapting my answer because you're an "OG"... as you're thinking.

Now, if you got a problem with me for whatever reason I'm still trying to figure out... you are invited to take that privately and use the messaging system.

 

[SPQR]

I don't know you... I so much don't know you that I had to look at your content after your post

I just wanted to know if creators are allowed to copy vamx or if when they're not "OG" creators they get labeled as sneaky when it's them that do stuff like that.

- there's a thread where you talk about sneaky creators
- so I asked hey is this sneaky or no sneaky?
- I was hoping for a sneaky/no sneaky answer
- I got you telling me you don't know me and never heard of my work, that I'm trollish, that I can't read, and something something about how online services work

That's so confusing to me and I have even more questions now but I'm happy to leave it at that to spare you getting even more upset.

I'm sorry for asking I guess. Here, accept a bro hug