It was pointed out by @Acid Bubbles that there might be conflict between the 2 systems. This poll is to help determine what to do. Thanks!
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Official Poll - reactions vs. reviews for resources
- Thread starter meshedvr
- Start date
I think the star ratings are fine. The bad note that we can have on reddit is currently only for the paid content.
The fact that on the new site dissociates well the free and paid content will solve the current problem where all is mixed, people who are dissatisfied with the paid system will not go to vote and giving that people who do not like the paid content will not go to see the paid content.
The fact that on the new site dissociates well the free and paid content will solve the current problem where all is mixed, people who are dissatisfied with the paid system will not go to vote and giving that people who do not like the paid content will not go to see the paid content.
- Messages
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- Reactions
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I would suggest leaving both in place, at least for now. Once people have been using them for a while, problems with one or the other may become apparent. It's kind of hard to decide which is best now, before we see how people use them.
To formalize my impression, I believe that both systems are fine, but the issue is that once those systems are used to find "quality content", you get two ranking sysmtes (the most "reactions" or the most "stars") basically saying exactly the same thing. Most people will only rate using one method or the other, diluting the value of rankings.
So while I don't really care about which is used, I think we need only one for allowing good content to bubble up and avoid confusion.
NOTE: I don't really like the star system itself, I'd prefer a very simple vote up/down (up means you like it, down means it crashes, doesn't work or it's bad quality and not that you dislike the content) but I'm ok with whatever the system ends up being based on what this forum allows.
So while I don't really care about which is used, I think we need only one for allowing good content to bubble up and avoid confusion.
NOTE: I don't really like the star system itself, I'd prefer a very simple vote up/down (up means you like it, down means it crashes, doesn't work or it's bad quality and not that you dislike the content) but I'm ok with whatever the system ends up being based on what this forum allows.
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Reactions give little hint what the user actually meant. The review gives a more diverse view and the option to actually write what you mean.
How about I just add a combined score system? Both reactions and reviews would then count. Perhaps more weight could be given to reviews (5 stars could count as 2 likes, 4 stars 1 like, 1-3 stars would not be negative). It would require some coding, but I have already made about 5 addons for this system including adding the sort by reaction score you see now.
I think the simpler the system is, the better. While I understand the intent, there will still be two review systems and a hard-to-understand ranking system for the common folk.
I tend to agree with @MacGruber that being able to attach a reason for reviews (especially bad reviews) is very useful. Bad reviews because you don't like something or bad reviews because it breaks your vam install have meaning when you check out something, or as an author if you want to act on those reviews.
"Likes" are nice to show appreciation or agreement (e.g. hey I like the screenshot for that look, thumbs up! But I didn't notice that the screenshot was to show the bra, not the model) but not that much to rank things, except by "popularity" which should already be available through downloads/view count.
I tend to agree with @MacGruber that being able to attach a reason for reviews (especially bad reviews) is very useful. Bad reviews because you don't like something or bad reviews because it breaks your vam install have meaning when you check out something, or as an author if you want to act on those reviews.
"Likes" are nice to show appreciation or agreement (e.g. hey I like the screenshot for that look, thumbs up! But I didn't notice that the screenshot was to show the bra, not the model) but not that much to rank things, except by "popularity" which should already be available through downloads/view count.
My main argument for keeping reaction system is it allows for a very quick way for users to show they appreciate something. Most people are not going to take time to leave a rating as it is requires multiple clicks. But I guess your point is if reaction system is not present, more people would leave ratings. I did make it so you no longer have to click download link to leave a rating.
According the star rating system: isn't it like most users are going for either a 1 or 5 star score, like a like or dislike? I wonder how many granular ratings are going to be done. In general im all for the stars voting system.
Like VaMDeV i also like the emojis for the visceral reactions, but i don't think they need to count towards a rating. At least myself would not expect that this is going to count as a rating while the stars rating is also active.
On one hand: you could write that as a note, on the other hand: who's going to read this note
Like VaMDeV i also like the emojis for the visceral reactions, but i don't think they need to count towards a rating. At least myself would not expect that this is going to count as a rating while the stars rating is also active.
On one hand: you could write that as a note, on the other hand: who's going to read this note
Based on activity already with limited users here, reactions are being used and ratings are not. I think @Acid Bubbles point is that by having reactions system, the rating system won't get used and it will be harder to find quality content. If I were to remove reactions on resources, then rating system might gain traction. People are unlikely to use both. I did vote for "both" myself, but I'm starting to have second thoughts.
@schnazzn mostly the authors, though in practice a very small portion of users will actually leave feedback (right now the user base is not representative of the typical users, as we're all content authors as far as I can tell).
I'm wondering (this is more a thought than an argument), what's the most valuable. Having fewer but higher quality ratings (people who actually care enough to go and add a rating) or having a less reliable (i.e. based on the screenshot) but more easily accessible rating system?
I'm thinking of https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim for example, they actually ask you to leave a rating a while after you have downloaded something. It's very easy to leave a rating but feels less like "hey, it looks cool" and more like "hey I tried it and it's good work!".
I'm wondering (this is more a thought than an argument), what's the most valuable. Having fewer but higher quality ratings (people who actually care enough to go and add a rating) or having a less reliable (i.e. based on the screenshot) but more easily accessible rating system?
I'm thinking of https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim for example, they actually ask you to leave a rating a while after you have downloaded something. It's very easy to leave a rating but feels less like "hey, it looks cool" and more like "hey I tried it and it's good work!".
Nexus modes just has simple "Endorse" system though. There is no star or typed review possible. This is like a lesser form of the reactions system, but with added requirement that you can't like it until you download it and wait 15 minutes. Not sure that is ideal for here either. I'm after same thing though, a simple system that allows the quality content to bubble to the top.
I'm trying to see it from the user perspective. Seeing it from there, you'd less likely leave a rating when it's not easy and fast enough to do so.
You are def. right in your thought. The question is: What do you want to achieve with the rating system? A fast and accessible way with most possible feedback or accurate ratings / reviews.
The nexxusmods example is great when it comes to mostly possible accurate ratings, i like that approach a lot!
In which case I should turn back on the option that you can only leave a rating if you actually clicked the download link, but @Acid Bubbles pointed out that would hurt older resources that people already have.
I also need to figure out how to allow people to rate in-game, because auto-download system in VaM will be accessing the hub through API of some sort and need to correctly register and tally the downloads. Download counts would also not be accurate if the auto-download system is not directly tied in.
I also need to figure out how to allow people to rate in-game, because auto-download system in VaM will be accessing the hub through API of some sort and need to correctly register and tally the downloads. Download counts would also not be accurate if the auto-download system is not directly tied in.
- Messages
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Agreed!
I have moved the reaction bar up next to "Leave a rating" button:
I made some more tweaks. Now in resource list, the reactions appear right below ratings, and you can no longer do a reaction from the list. You must go into the resource page itself.
More tweaks for appearance:
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Nexus Mod is the best I think in modding, I was about to recommend you similar thing. Basically why it is so effective i think is it captures both initial rush of user downloads to push newer content, as well as the delayed endorsement system capturing feedback of content quality. And it does those seamlessly without the expense of user writing a review or hit a reaction button. I would like it to be simple, too. But the more constructive feedback for creators the better the future products. My idea system is top download count during set time periods as hot content in one section, most endorsements/recommendations consider frontpage/top resource for a certain period in another section. The endorsements can be captured in the var pagakge page, just need a thumps up button. Would be nice to have a 15mins timer. And a field to fill in additional comments/feedback.
Some good ideas here. I also see the point that user might "abuse" the ratings like they do on reddit and just downvote stuff that is not their taste or paid, regardless of quality. Or use reactions to kink-shame... But this is something to keep an eye on how it works out...
I think a simple system like thumb up-down is better then granular stars, but I would exchange the icons. "like" can mean "I like the girl in the preview"... So something like "endorse" vs "not working" would make it clearer, that the rating is meant for quality.
Theoretically: If you don't "like" something it's enough to just not vote at all. Having a bug/not working/ low quality icon instead a "thumbs down" will make this clearer, I guess.
Or just a in your face solution: "Rate Quality: Icon-arrow-up , Icon-arrow-down"
And for the reactions: Yes, they probably don't need to count into the sorting, as long as the vote/endorsement is used by the users.
I think a simple system like thumb up-down is better then granular stars, but I would exchange the icons. "like" can mean "I like the girl in the preview"... So something like "endorse" vs "not working" would make it clearer, that the rating is meant for quality.
Theoretically: If you don't "like" something it's enough to just not vote at all. Having a bug/not working/ low quality icon instead a "thumbs down" will make this clearer, I guess.
Or just a in your face solution: "Rate Quality: Icon-arrow-up , Icon-arrow-down"
And for the reactions: Yes, they probably don't need to count into the sorting, as long as the vote/endorsement is used by the users.
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A couple of notes:
The first 4 reactions are all +1 to reaction score. The last 2 (sad and angry) are 0 to reaction score. I have chosen to not include the downvote reaction which could be set to 0 or -1.
Also - reactions and ratings are not anonymous. It will be obvious if people are abusing the system and action can be easily taken, unlike on reddit.
I think both might be winning out here. Reactions allow you to just like what you see from initial glance. This in combination with number of downloads and other metrics could allow finding "hot" content. The ratings system then allows a more full endorsement and more detailed feedback, like "Hey, I gave this 3 stars because it has this major bug in it".
I'm looking at an addon that allows finding content that is trending and will likely make dedicated pages for "Hot this week", "Hot this month", etc.
The first 4 reactions are all +1 to reaction score. The last 2 (sad and angry) are 0 to reaction score. I have chosen to not include the downvote reaction which could be set to 0 or -1.
Also - reactions and ratings are not anonymous. It will be obvious if people are abusing the system and action can be easily taken, unlike on reddit.
I think both might be winning out here. Reactions allow you to just like what you see from initial glance. This in combination with number of downloads and other metrics could allow finding "hot" content. The ratings system then allows a more full endorsement and more detailed feedback, like "Hey, I gave this 3 stars because it has this major bug in it".
I'm looking at an addon that allows finding content that is trending and will likely make dedicated pages for "Hot this week", "Hot this month", etc.
