Looking for opinions on my resources...

WolfmanVR

Well-known member
Messages
276
Reactions
246
Points
63
Website
www.patreon.com
Patreon
wolfmanvr
Hey everyone! I'm really enjoying VaM, been learning a ton over the past few months, and I try to help out and join conversations where I can. But now I have a request for people who have seen my resources.....

Does anyone have something constructive to say about the resources I've been posting? I have asked for feedback on both my resources here on the Hub as well as on Patreon, and it's just crickets. Nothing positive, nothing negative.... just... well... nothing! Are there any redeeming qualities to my resources? Do I need to up my game in "XYZ"? Are people just not interested in the models/scenes I've created? Not professional enough? Anything?

Any and all feedback is welcome! (Please be nice, I'm only human...) Thanks!

--WolfmanVR
 
Heya, hub feedback is something I think everyone creating has problems with, in that the participation from the general public is extremely lacking in general and even the best of the free resources comparative to downloads get a lot less feedback than you would expect. I'd hazard a guess 95% of users wont even have a hub account and even if they do most users will download stuff via the in game hub browser which wont be logged in so no likes/ratings etc.

This ratio falls to almost non existent levels as soon as a resource is paid since 99.9% of users wont ever get to try it out. I think the most iv ever seen was 8 or 9 reviews on a paid look after the creator implored his patreons to go and actually rate for once.

I personally know of a fair few users who don't release or did release content only to later delete all their content for for getting little to no feedback, cos why should we offer up our time and effort and get nothing back?
 
Last edited:
Heya, hub feedback is something I think everyone creating has problems with, in that the participation form the general public is extremely lacking in general and even the best of the free resources comparative to downloads get a lot less feedback than you would expect. I'd hazard a guess 95% of users wont even have a hub account and even if they do most users will download stuff via the in game hub browser which wont be logged in so no likes/ratings etc.

This ratio falls to almost non existent levels as soon as a resource is paid since 99.9% of users wont ever get to try it out. I think the most iv ever seen was 8 or 9 reviews on a paid look after the creator implored his patreons to go and actually rate for once.

I personally know of a fair few users who don't release or did release content only to later delete all their content for for getting little to no feedback, cos why should we offer up our time and effort and get nothing back?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm seeing. I think I have one or two thumbs up on my paid posts (total across them all), and half a dozen or so on my free posts. Oh well, I guess I'll just keep flying in the dark...
 
Hey everyone! I'm really enjoying VaM, been learning a ton over the past few months, and I try to help out and join conversations where I can. But now I have a request for people who have seen my resources.....

Does anyone have something constructive to say about the resources I've been posting? I have asked for feedback on both my resources here on the Hub as well as on Patreon, and it's just crickets. Nothing positive, nothing negative.... just... well... nothing! Are there any redeeming qualities to my resources? Do I need to up my game in "XYZ"? Are people just not interested in the models/scenes I've created? Not professional enough? Anything?

Any and all feedback is welcome! (Please be nice, I'm only human...) Thanks!

--WolfmanVR

You seem to focus on beefy women and maybe the guys that like that kind of woman are too shy to comment on your scenes. As to your patreon site, I feel like you're charging too much money and have too many tiers. The guys I sub to on patreon have 1 tier and are around 4 or 5 dollars a month and offer a teaser on this site and a more elaborate version of that scene and exclusive scenes on patreon.

I salute you creators, I don't have the energy to tweak VaM to pump out content like some of you do.

If you continue creating with the thoughts that:

1) I'm doing this and enjoy what I make even if few buy it
2) As I get better, I'll probably get more subs
3) Even if I don't, nothing ventured nothing gained

You should be OK
 
Thanks for the feedback, Joe6Pack! I'm not sure if 3 tiers is too many or not. I see plenty of creators offering 3+ tiers and they seem to do ok (although I have no idea if they are getting decent feedback/interactions from their Patrons or not). I do offer a $3 tier too, which I think is more than reasonable for the amount of work I put in. But this was less about the number of Patrons I have (although I could use some more, haha), and more about just general feedback on the quality of my resources...

Regardless, I think your #1 point is key. I do enjoy it, and I suppose that's all that really matters at the end of the day.
 
I'm trying to be honest without being rude: your models are just not that beautiful, I mean in an objective way cause beauty can be measured (golden cut).
Comparing to free looks with high ratings, for example from @Juno (premium quality, thank you so much!) , they also do lack quality in my opinion.
I mean let's be honest: porn for the masses is sex with attractive people, young and good looking girls in general. Cause that's what men want from a biological point of view.

Second is there's already so much really high quality stuff out there for free but you want money for the "not really high quality" stuff. So why pay for it when I can get better looks for free? Don't get me wrong, i appreciate every content creator giving the community quality content (looks), if it's free. And creating quality looks for example is not that much of a big deal if you spend some time.

So if you ask me, honestly, if you wanna make money with your creations, you have to focus on mainstream looks.
If you want ratings, then release your creations for free, and even then it's not guaranteed you will receive feedback.
Have a look on the free looks list and filter it by ratings: that's the quality content.
Then take a look at the downloads/ratings ratio, that's the difference between appreciation and releasing stuff on the internet for free.

This opinion is for free, and if you like it you can hit the like button. I spent my lifetime on your personal matters because I wanna support the community. And I really take my time to post something, this post took me about 20-30 minutes, just saying.
And even if someone is not giving me a like, I don't mind. I try to support, I want nothing in exchange.
 
Last edited:
I agree that your girls do have a fairly niche appearance, which probably narrows down your audience appreciation. But the mainstream look is saturated in VAM, and you're competing against some highly skilled artists with years of experience creating them atm. I'd lean as far into your niche as possible and try and build a loyal fanbase.

I'd also suggest that you spend more time and effort showcasing them. Lighting makes up 93% of a model's attractiveness, and yours look like they were taken under fluorescents at the police station ;)
 
Yes, I second that. Personally I'm not a big fan of most of the presentations cause you don't get what you see. It's like instagram.
 
Thanks for the honest opinions, @HolySchmidt and @Lytanshade. This thread really wasn't meant to be a "Why am I not making more money?" whine. I was more asking for some opinions on what I'm doing right, what I'm doing wrong, and what I can improve upon. Maybe even a few pointers here and there to point me in the right direction to kick my resources up a notch. Sure, making more money would be nice, but I'm having a good time and honestly I'm just trying to improve my quality right now. I still have a lot to learn! What I'm hearing is I need to release more stuff for free if I really want some feedback, because not enough people are participating in the paid area.

"....taken under fluorescents at the police station". LOL! :ROFLMAO: You've got a point there! hahaha But, I'm also trying to be realistic with what people are getting. I want someone to be able to load my models and go "yeah, that's what was advertised". I also don't do all the photo depth perception, lens flares, etc, because again, it's not realistic if you load one of my models into a scene that doesn't have those plugins loaded.

I know I have some very talented competition, and I'm actually not really trying to compete directly with them. That's why I thought I'd go a different angle by making average looking, overweight, imperfect models. I realize my stuff is fairly niche (not everyone likes BBW ladies, or gigantic breasts, or moles and scars), but I'm doing that on purpose for the people that do. There is already an abundance of gorgeous, anime-like, super thin very attractive models by people who are far more talented than me. I thought I'd try something different, even though it would have a much smaller appeal...
 
"....taken under fluorescents at the police station". LOL! :ROFLMAO: You've got a point there! hahaha But, I'm also trying to be realistic with what people are getting. I want someone to be able to load my models and go "yeah, that's what was advertised". I also don't do all the photo depth perception, lens flares, etc, because again, it's not realistic if you load one of my models into a scene that doesn't have those plugins loaded.

Certainly not suggesting using photo trickery.

Lemme show a quick example. And please don't think I'm criticizing your efforts. Just expressing my personal feelings regarding the importance of lighting in VAM. Even a single light source with 3x Pixel Light Count setting in your user prefs instantly improves any scene 10 fold imo. I have a fairly old system (6600k/980ti) but I can crank everything to high with 1 girl and a triple light rig and it looks incredible in VR.

So I attached a quick example of your girl as presented on the Hub, contrasted against three screenshots of the default VAM girl.


First designed to be similar to yours - The default VAM girl with a single 'invisible light' placed directly in front of her, and the pixel light count set to 1.

wolf1.jpg
1651914899.jpg



This next image is the identical scene but with the Pixel Light Count setting set to 3. Literally just changed the Pixel Light Count. Still one invisible light; still potato settings.

1651915005.jpg




This last one has a better 4 point light rig (MonsterShinkai rig#2) against a black background (which is how I use VAM 90% of the time). And I've turned the ingame settings up. This is exactly how my VAM looks in game and VR. And on a fairly crappy computer! It's literally one girl and one 4 light rig.

1651911955.jpg



No postmagic or supershot or anything. It's pure VAM and simple lighting, and exactly what someone with my crappy computer would see ingame.

1651914899.jpg
1651911955.jpg
 
Last edited:
This is a good reminder for me to go back and leaving ratings etc on the resources that I enjoy using in VAM! I tend to scroll through and download a lot of stuff, and then might be months before I actually load it into VAM to check out. And at that point the connection to the product listing on the Hub is lost, and I don't think to go back and thank the person.
 
@WolfmanVR
I understand what you mean. But as @Lytanshade already said: you are creating niche looks. So you will of course get niche ratings. And as I already pointed out, even the mainstream looks don't get what they "deserve" regarding ratings. That's the whole point.

@Lytanshade
Same with me. I try to leave a rating from time to time as well. I also don't wanna rate something before I even tried it out, just to be fair. Pictures on the hub are one thing, the real outcome ingame is sometimes totally different.
 
I don't like your models (sorry don't mean to be harsh) but i think you can improve the presentation by tuning lights and/or using some better light rig. They all seems really "flat".
 
I think your problem is there's so much free stuff, no one will pay for anything that isn't substantially better than what they can get for free. You can see that premise played out in the ratio between free and paid-for downloads, and their reviews. The exception being niche, but then, is the niche market for VAM worth the effort to create for and supply to? I can't imagine it is.

I've bought a few paid plugins, but lately have figured out free workarounds, so I'm going to stop subscribing. ( That's human nature.)

With regard to plugins and looks; who's going pay for a look when you you have free plugins which merge and create new looks until you have created the look you want? Unless the look is exceptional, then no one's going to pay for it.

I have some looks I'd love to upload to the hub, but sadly I can't follow the logic of making a .var file from the information provided. If anyone ever makes a how-to video, I'll happily share my looks for free. Free sharing makes everyone richer, in a different way. If I ever succeed in building a neural net for VAM, then I'll ask people to subscribe, because that represents four years research and testing. I'm sure they won't mind given what it can potentially do. But that is not the same as sharing a free look, that took an enjoyable, stress-free half-an-hour to make.
 
Last edited:
I have some looks I'd love to upload to the hub, but sadly I can't follow the logic of making a .var file from the information provided. If anyone ever makes a how-to video, I'll happily share my looks for free. Free sharing makes everyone richer, in a different way.

maybe this can help ?
 
@Lytanshade - Thanks! That was exactly the kind of tips / feedback I was looking for! I've been meaning to try additional lighting rigs and figure that out better. Sounds like that's a good place for me to start to improve my looks/scenes...

@HolySchmidt - Right, I understand anything niche will be reviewed less. I was just looking any feedback. As I said in first post, I had received zero written feedback from anyone up until now. I appreciate you guys spending some time and giving me your opinions.

@Hedgepig - Agreed that there is an abundance of free stuff, and you're right, people gravitate towards free stuff. But again, the entire purpose of this thread was that I was getting no feedback (positive or negative) to really hear how I was doing or what I could improve upon. Ultimately, sure, I'm asking for advice to get better so I might make more money eventually, but that's a secondary issue right now. At this point I just want to work on getting the most out of the tool, learning advanced techniques, etc. Regarding the "half-an-hour to make", sure, if you are just pushing around sliders. Custom texture work takes considerably more time, imo.

Regarding making a VAR, @Hedgepig, if you have Discord I could jump on a screen share with you and walk you through how to make one. It's fairly simple after you understand a few key concepts. Send me a DM with your info and we can work out a time if you want.
 
Last edited:
@Lytanshade - I started playing with the Pixel Light Count. Wow, that setting really makes a big difference. Thanks for the tip! Unfortunately it's a User Preference, so it's not something that can be enforced inside a scene (or at least not that I'm aware of anyway).
 
Here's a comparison from my original scene with Valentina (yeah, pretty bad lighting!), to my latest "Model Pose Scene Changer" environment, and then changing the setting that @Lytanshade suggested, plus tamed down the lights a bit more. Much less like a police station. LOL I think I was already starting to go down the right track with lighting, but that Pixel Light Count setting definitely makes a difference, and turning the lights down even more helps quite a bit too. Still a lot more experimenting to do...

Comparison.jpg.png


Any other suggestions on how to improve my scenes or looks is greatly appreciated! Thanks guys!
 
@Lytanshade - Thanks! That was exactly the kind of tips / feedback I was looking for! I've been meaning to try additional lighting rigs and figure that out better. Sounds like that's a good place for me to start to improve my looks/scenes...

@HolySchmidt - Right, I understand anything niche will be reviewed less. I was just looking any feedback. As I said in first post, I had received zero written feedback from anyone up until now. I appreciate you guys spending some time and giving me your opinions.

@Hedgepig - Agreed that there is an abundance of free stuff, and you're right, people gravitate towards free stuff. But again, the entire purpose of this thread was that I was getting no feedback (positive or negative) to really hear how I was doing or what I could improve upon. Ultimately, sure, I'm asking for advice to get better so I might make more money eventually, but that's a secondary issue right now. At this point I just want to work on getting the most out of the tool, learning advanced techniques, etc. Regarding the "half-an-hour to make", sure, if you are just pushing around sliders. Custom texture work takes considerably more time, imo.

Regarding making a VAR, @Hedgepig, if you have Discord I could jump on a screen share with you and walk you through how to make one. It's fairly simple after you understand a few key concepts. Send me a DM with your info and we can work out a time if you want.

Your original question and my premise :
Are people just not interested in the models/scenes I've created? Not professional enough? Anything?

To my mind the problem has little to do with the lack of lighting, and far more to do with the equation of sales and the percentage of reviews garnered from those sales.

You cannot separate the cost of an item from its purchase volume and subsequent ratings and reviews. Quite simply, a small percentage of users who download things review them, or not. People download more free things than paid-for. To put your lack of reviews in perspective, a pair of scissors on Amazon will get 1000s of reviews, a generally decent-to-read book about 100, a good free download for VAM, about 10, an excellent paid-for download might average 3-4 reviews.

If the manufacturer of the scissors out them up for free, they'd receive a billion orders from around the globe and a zillion ratings by folk who don't even want a pair of scissors, but are getting something, anything, for free. double the price, no one will buy it and the reviews stop- these are the economic 'sliders' of sales. It is the same equation translated across all the different products.

Example from life experience: If put my one of my books up for free, readers download it, and I get reviews, the book climbs into the top 100 bestsellers for its category for a day or two . Give it a price, $2.99 , readers stop downloading and the reviews stop. Then it is subject to reality and picked up by economic gravity, whence it falls out of the category with the steely determination of the Dropship pilot in Aliens. Then the potential readers head off to find the next writer or agent giving away free stuff to place their work in the top 100. I can send you a screenshot of what it's like to be in the top 100 bestsellers in a Amazon category, but it's only there, because it was free. But, not bad given there are 50 million books on Amazon, and 100 000s in the category. Depends what you want, affirmation or money, I suppose, and reviews will always tempt new paying readers.

For what it's worth, to me, for this is subjective, there's a nice a Clan of the Cave Bear vibe with your looks. The Clan of the Cave Bear: The first book in the internationally bestselling series (Earth's Children 1) eBook : Auel, Jean M.: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store

The Clan of the Cave Bear is excellent book, and it has been around since the 1980s. It is sensibly priced at $7.00, so you've really got to want to read to buy it. To date, it has 3998 ratings, which, to my mind, is not a lot given it's quality and longevity. Somewhat despondently, I have to tell you that the pair of scissors on Amazon received three times more ratings in a year than Jean M Auel's book has in four decades. It must have taken two years of hard work to write and and edit, so that's not a huge return over 40 years, and 6 or 7 years it's been available online. I suppose the movie helped as well. But you'd agree, Good book, movie, publishers marketing, but 4000 reviews is not a lot in the scheme of things.

I haven't even mentioned how movies and marketing profoundly influences sales.

Regarding how to quickly make free looks in VAM:

The plugins, JayJayWon's UI Assist and pinosante's Evolutionary Character Creation will quickly mix and merge looks. They are a LOT of fun to play with and create exceptional new looks. In less than half an hour you can choose your new look . There are no sliders involved unless you fine tune the look in morphs. The process is quick and fun. Why would anyone pay for a look unless it was exceptional or niche? Unexceptional or non-niche combined with price are the core reasons for a lack of uptake, not the lighting rigs or pixel counts or any such things, per se. They are secondary factors. But what do I know about such thing, huh?

You are lucky that I enjoy writing, and need the mental exercise, otherwise I wouldn't bother replying. If this was copy for a publisher, I'd charge about a hundred dollars for this review article and give it a full SPAG edit. That's the way of these things.
 
Last edited:
Regarding how to quickly make free looks in VAM:

The plugins, JayJayWon's UI Assist and pinosante's Evolutionary Character Creation will quickly mix and merge looks. They are a LOT of fun to play with and create exceptional new looks. In less than half an hour you can choose your new look . There are no sliders involved unless you fine tune the look in morphs. The process is quick and fun. Why would anyone pay for a look unless it was exceptional or niche? Unexceptional or non-niche combined with price are the core reasons for a lack of uptake, not the lighting rigs or pixel counts or any such things, per se. They are secondary factors. But what do I know about such thing, huh?

If you are doing this to produce looks you should only be using them privately, they should never ever see any kind of public release unless you can properly reference the resources and credit the creators who's work was mixed up. Tools like these are too easy to abuse and I'd have them taken off the hub entirely if it were up to me.
 
So if you ask me, honestly, if you wanna make money with your creations, you have to focus on mainstream looks.
Arg, please no... There are already so many available; if everybody keeps doing mainstream we'll only have more and more of the same!


If you want ratings, then release your creations for free, and even then it's not guaranteed you will receive feedback.
Yep, if you want more feedback and a basis to compare your releases (through the number of reactions & downloads): you should give some of them for free. New ones or old ones.
The few ones that were given for free are the only ones with multiples likes on them. That's not much, but better than nothing!


I personally know of a fair few users who don't release or did release content only to later delete all their content for for getting little to no feedback, cos why should we offer up our time and effort and get nothing back?
Yeah, that's one thing to be aware when you're a creator: don't expect to have much feedback. As Juno & Lytanshade said: because of no account, in-game browser, downloading without trying right away, too shy, no more time or simply can't be bothered... that doesn't leave much people giving feedback.
Little feedback doesn't necessarily mean that users don't enjoy your stuff and that you should stop sharing. Just do it because you want to, not expecting anything in return.
 
If you are doing this to produce looks you should only be using them privately, they should never ever see any kind of public release unless you can properly reference the resources and credit the creators who's work was mixed up. Tools like these are too easy to abuse and I'd have them taken off the hub entirely if it were up to me.

Aw, these plugins are such fun to play with! You should see what you can make, it's awesome.

Refencing should be easy enough - just refence the creators whose models' DNA went into the mix and match , 10% this, 10% that, etc.

I don't know how to make a .var file, so I' won't be sharing them any time soon. If someone wants to make me a simple how-to-make-a. var, video , I'll share my files, and refence the creators.

VAM is such a happy place, isn't it!!
 
One of the great undocumented rules is to ensure you have an unmerged copy of any model you release as if reported to mods thats exactly what you will have to provide, this probably will not be possible with tools like this.

Its also a matter of respect for the creators work you use so if your going to reference It should literally mean that the original morphs are directly used from the creators var and not merged into a character morph so the constituent morphs are the dependencies. Saying its 10% of this that and the other is not in my opinion anywhere good enough if your going to make a release.
 
Back
Top Bottom