Gumroad

[Koryu]

Hey folks. I know, two topics within a few seconds of each other.... Lots of shower thoughts... wait until you see my "Animation idea"... you'll want to kick me clean off of here

So, I see a lot of folks complaining about Patreon as a service. I was wondering if folks have considered something like Gumroad. Where folks pay for things in small amounts (Like $0.50 or $1 per).

As someone who has spent most of their life as an artist, having to dig into sofa cushions to find money for food, I have zero problem buying artwork from folks, but I can understand problems with subscriptions. They CAN get out of hand and every so often I have to "purge" all of my Patreons because we are out of money.

So, is there any thought on using a purchasing service of some sort? Even perhaps a "store" here on the Hub?

 

[djsoapyknuckles]

I explored the idea a little bit. I even played around with creating a licensing system in Unity for VaM that allowed asset purchases that interfaced with gumroad's API so creators could sell individual assets and not have to worry about people giving them away or posting them somewhere else for everyone to download. I pretty much scrapped the idea because I think a more unified approach that was built into the game and worked for all content (looks, clothing, hairs, etc.) and not just Custom Unity Assets would be a better approach. It is certainly possible to sell var packages on gumroad, but without building a content licensing system into the game that tracks who owns what and who is authorized to use what items, once you release an item on gumroad, you are relying on the good will of people to actually purchase it, and not distribute it.

 

[MacGruber]

The main reason for Patreon is that everybody using VaM already got an account. Signing up to a new site and trusting it with your payment data is a major hurdle many would not go just to support one creator with 1$. The next creator you want to support will of course use a different site...you have to sign up again. Patreon doesn't have this issue.

However, "folks complaining about Patreon" would very likely complain about any other paid system as well. I assume you refer to the people on Reddit. These people even complain if stuff is free, you can't make them happy. Yes, I tried. However, that just a vocal minority, as a good percentage of my paying (and apparently happy) Patreons comes from Reddit.

 

[djsoapyknuckles]

I think the patreon model works fairly well for this type of thing. The possibility is always there that meshedVR could add some kind of content purchasing/licensing framework to the software and integrate it into some kind of online store, but I haven't seen that on any roadmap at this point. The user classes (by design) are differentiated into casual users, who just want to download stuff and have it work like a game, and user-creators who use in-game or free / paid available assets (morphs/hairs/looks/assets etc.) to make their own scenes for personal use/distribute them, but don't necessarily create their own "things" from scratch. They may want compensation for their work. Nothing wrong with that if people are willing to pay. Then you have the actual content-creators, who make new stuff for everyone else that didn't previously exist in the game. In my opinion, some of the friction comes from user-creators who are looking for existing stuff to use in their scenes, but don't actually create anything "new" (I don't consider using existing morphs to configure an appearance/look actually creating new content, although some would probably disagree) and content-creators who are spending lots of time making new things and also want to be compensated for that. The monetization of the software is really in the hands of content-creators, because if no one makes anything new, user-creators either have to spend their own resources (time/money etc.) and learn how to start creating the "things" they want, or be limited to what currently exists in the VaM "economy", which in turn limits their ability to monetize. Right now, there is plenty of room for everyone in the "economy", but I can certainly see issues in the "VaM Market" in the future as it gets more crowded

 

[ZinoZelvet]

The friction comes from having a working modding community at the nexus for skyrim and such, while here we have an unfinished piece of software environment filled with copycats begging for money.

How many paid-shit-content mods are there hosted on the nexus?

See?

 

[djsoapyknuckles]

I've never modded for skyrim - so I have no idea what a "paid-shit-content mod" for skyrim would look like. I'm assuming you're making the argument that there aren't any on the nexus? and that the VaM hub is full of them? With VaM, you are absolutely correct that its unfinished, and that part can be frustrating if you don't take it for what it is. I don't think it will ever be "finished" in terms of development because its a development sandbox, not a game in and of itself. but there are plenty of high quality looks and assets available, although content curation is not really a thing here, so I guess its still "buyer beware" at this point

 

[Koryu]

I totally agree with supporting artists. Patreon is an awesome thing for that. If someone is making a LOT of content for VaM, then it absolutely makes sense to use Patreon.

But I noticed just now that I have been supporting a few folks for MONTHS and they haven't made new things... so, in essence, I paid $15 for one item.

I think the only reason this is bothering me is because I could have been giving my money to someone else during that time (But because the universe is full of things I need to track, I totally spaced it). I certainly hope that's not the intent (As it is with all of the random credit card subscription services). But either way, I'm hoping for a per-item feature soon. I'd absolutely buy a lot of those free items for a dollar or two apiece. The items that are popping up and I simply can no longer afford to extend my Patronage...

Anyway, something to ponder. That's all. If I ever manage to do the things I want to do with VaM, I'll see if I can't try the model out myself. Maybe it's a stupid idea, might as well test it on myself!

 

[djsoapyknuckles]

I totally agree with supporting artists. Patreon is an awesome thing for that. If someone is making a LOT of content for VaM, then it absolutely makes sense to use Patreon.

But I noticed just now that I have been supporting a few folks for MONTHS and they haven't made new things... so, in essence, I paid $15 for one item.

I think the only reason this is bothering me is because I could have been giving my money to someone else during that time (But because the universe is full of things I need to track, I totally spaced it). I certainly hope that's not the intent (As it is with all of the random credit card subscription services). But either way, I'm hoping for a per-item feature soon. I'd absolutely buy a lot of those free items for a dollar or two apiece. The items that are popping up and I simply can no longer afford to extend my Patronage...

Anyway, something to ponder. That's all. If I ever manage to do the things I want to do with VaM, I'll see if I can't try the model out myself. Maybe it's a stupid idea, might as well test it on myself!

I totally agree that a "marketplace" where you can just buy what you want for a set price would be awesome. Subscription model has its place, but for assets, I definitely think it would be beneficial

 

[YameteOuji]

I want to share my recent experience with Gumroad so other creators can make up their own mind.

First off, today I closed my Gumroad account due to privacy issues. The reason: Today I received an ad (not from Gumroad but a separate internet company) in letter form sent to my physical home address. The address name on the letter was "Yameteouji". So this means that Gumroad has shared my user name associated with my physical mail address with their partners. And now that other company has this information in what I believe is in an unsecured format. So obviously I closed my account today. I also reached out to Gumroad and am awaiting their response. To me this is a very big issue since my works are NSFW.

Outside of the privacy issue - Gumroad interface and user experience is not bad. The problem is their high fees. All transactions are processed individually and each transaction is charged a 3.5% plus 30 cents transaction fee. Which is fine if you're selling high priced items. But in my case I always wanted to let users decide how much to pay with the minimum being $1.00. So if I sold an item for 1.00, I get about 70 cents and Gumroad gets 30 cents. Which is pretty nuts. Long story short, Gumroad is really bad if you want to sell lots of low cost items.

Hope this helps others and clears up why most creators don't use Gumroad.

 

[No1]

I cant believe they shared your information!! Even your home address!!!
It's a big issue! I'm happy you cancel your account with Gumroad and thanks for the warning!!

 

[luminous]

this is a good conversation - I lurk and don't purchase paid content becuase there is no privacy compatible way to (bitcoin, anonymous). Just fyi...

 

[djsoapyknuckles]

Yes, it would be great if patreon supported anonymous payment methods...I agree that it is very problematic, especially for folks who live in countries that are restrictive with the internet