Question Which content can I use for a free game but with optional patreon (Licences)?

[w0nderfulll]

Hello everyone,

im making a renpy game with pictures and videos I made in VAM.

It will be a free game but I will probably have an optional patreon and Im a bit lost on the licences.

Which content / licences can I use for this? What licenced content should I avoid?

Any tips / comments are appreciated. I read some things about it but Im not 100% sure about everything.
Ofc I will give credit to everyone.

Ty!

 

[atani]

Official - 04. Licensing Guide

Guide to VAR Licensing Virt-a-Mate Specific Licensing VaM has licenses specific to our product that are intended to clarify what can be done with Free Content as well as protecting the work of Paid Content creators. If you have any questions regarding licensing, CC or VaM specific, please...

hub.virtamate.com

Did you check this page already?

 

[hazmhox]

Don't forget the Daz License. (Interactive License)

To clarify: Creators for VAM are allowed to use VAM commercially because they're sharing data/assets for VAM. This means that they're only providing content to users that own VAM, which falls under the licensing of the game.

On the other hand: any company, using Daz assets to create "standalone" content (games for instance), with a commercial goal. Are required to have an interactive license. If you plan on making commercial use (which is what is a patreon), as you are using Daz assets because this is what VAM is based on, you will need the proper Daz license.

Note that, I haven't checked the latest updates to Daz licenses. But you might only need the Standard one if you're only doing 2D/videos and not 3D.

 

[SlimerJSpud]

My understanding of the Daz licensing is that any still image or video rendered in Daz can be used for commercial purposes, except for some items (usually ShareCG freebies) that have the equivalent of NC licenses. The interactive license is only needed to do what MeshedVR did, which is to embed the assets in a game. If you have to have the meshes and textures in game, then you need the interactive license, and you have to prevent them from being extracted. Using rendered media in a game does not require packaging and distributing the assets themselves.

 

[hazmhox]

Yup so standard license ok : ) It hasn't changed then. ( you still need a license )

 

[FantasiWrapper]

Remain unclear with VAM licensing after scan-reading > https://hub.virtamate.com/threads/04-licensing-guide.61388/.

DAZ allows commercial rendering of images and videos, so long as the assets are paid for and the assets are not shared in any way.
Otherwise need to add interactive license.

Reading the VAM licensing specs from that context just stated, because no assets are actually shared, i do remain unclear.
If PAID Vam asset, own a paid copy makes 100% obvious sense.

So can you include VAM animation captured renderings, or does this conflict with any license term?
Honestly would like to know.

 

[hazmhox]

Remain unclear with VAM licensing after scan-reading > https://hub.virtamate.com/threads/04-licensing-guide.61388/.

DAZ allows commercial rendering of images and videos, so long as the assets are paid for and the assets are not shared in any way.
Otherwise need to add interactive license.

Reading the VAM licensing specs from that context just stated, because no assets are actually shared, i do remain unclear.
If PAID Vam asset, own a paid copy makes 100% obvious sense.

So can you include VAM animation captured renderings, or does this conflict with any license term?
Honestly would like to know.

1. In the case of VAM, using VAM to release VAM content ( looks, plugins, animations etc... ) is authorized as the licence itself is covered by the software/game itself. You're producing content with VAM for VAM.
2. As a game creator, no matter what your "form" is (company/patreon user). You are creating a standalone content that is not tied to VAM. You are creating your own game. So this is not covered by VAM's licence EVEN IF you use VAM as the mean to render your content. It's logical as you could somewhat do the same thing with Daz natively. It would mean you'd bypass the licensing needs by using VAM, which is obviously a no no
   • In a situation like a renpy novel, you are in the 2D/rendering realm > You need a standard license for the base skins that you are using (even if they are modified through morphs). For instance, Monique is around 40 bucks.
   • Interactive is not concerned as you can't grab data from the game. Well, there is one exception, for instance if you export the mesh of a character. But let's be honest, no one is gonna grab that, re-rig in a game. You'd use a proper license with the original mesh from Daz. But let's say you'd do it, you would need an interactive license.

As for the ".var" licenses. They are another subject. This is within the context of VAM. And a PC license only means it's a paid content.
For commercial use of ANY material, sharing it in a 2D form or not, you have to refer to the license terms. And in the case of PC (paid content), the owner is the one making the rules.

You will have to refer to the owner of the PC to know exactly what you are allowed to do with it. Again, so that it's not forgotten: no matter how you use the content, 2D or not.

So TL;DR: For any PC, just like a standard license for any paid software, you should always contact the owner if you have any doubt on what you are allowed to do with it or not.

For everyone stumbling on the thread, just a reminder: in the case of licenses, "not knowing" is not a valid defense if you are in a legal dispute. Using an intellectual property/software/etc... requires you to find that information first before using it.

 

[FantasiWrapper]

1. It's logical as you could somewhat do the same thing with Daz natively. It would mean you'd bypass the licensing needs by using VAM, which is obviously a no no

---

Hey, thanks alot for your in-depth reply. Appreciate it!
Was away for last while, hence delay in my reply

Does sound like VAM is a proprietary game by design. And not intended as a rendering product?
And video-capturing physics animations for replay only, which VAM excels at creating, for adding to Renpy Novel for example, this is not really intended.
That is to say, out of stated license scope.
Whereas DAZ explicitly allows this type of activity for renderings (not to be confused with interactive). There are Zero question as to allowability with DAZ if you own the underlying assets, which many of us do.
And VAM1 is built is on using DAZ's G2. Saying that with no idea of actual terms for G2 permission usage from DAZ.

But very much understand licensing and need to protect, especially in this age of AI and too many folk that "just take".
That said, wouldn't surprise me at all if big AI multi-million/billion companies are using VAM anims to train.
(Cue Meta and recent news it torrented novels to get around issues to train their ai model)
Saying all this as just another "small" artist.
My sympatico is for sure with VAM and it's vibrant artist base. Just in case there is any confusion.

 

[hazmhox]

Does sound like VAM is a proprietary game by design. And not intended as a rendering product?
And video-capturing physics animations for replay only, which VAM excels at creating, for adding to Renpy Novel for example, this is not really intended.

Well! Yeap VAM was meant for a realtime experience first and foremost.

But it does not prevent you to use it for something else tho. But on that aspect, it's no different than any other game. For instance, you can stream any game you play, and live as a "streamer", but for instance you could not use the assets of a game to create content with a commercial intent.

That example is a bit extreme since you could probably never access to a game IP from Capcom or whatever for your own use. But in the case of VAM, Daz being a company that revolves around selling content for you to use, then in that case, the alternate solution is to have proper licenses if you wanna make commercial use of VAM's renders : )

G2, I think (so you'd have to verify) that the "base" is free. But most base skins in VAM (besides the pure default) do not rely on the default, they rely on Monique or other commercial skins.

My sympatico is for sure with VAM and it's vibrant artist base. Just in case there is any confusion.

Never doubted that! It's cool

On my end, I think that 95% of the renpy novels would be 10 times better if they'd work with VAM instead of Daz. Far more possibilities for animation, for any type of creators level (beginners to insanely advanced) and far more choice from actual open source or CC content. But I suspect that a lot of people are probably not even aware of the existence of VAM or too afraid to dive into it. (which is strange to me because I find Daz far worst when it comes to UX and production).

But that's my take on it... someday I'll take the time to make a short demo of what you could achieve with VAM in the renpy engine

 

[FantasiWrapper]

On my end, I think that 95% of the renpy novels would be 10 times better if they'd work with VAM instead of Daz.

Far more possibilities for animation, for any type of creators level (beginners to insanely advanced) and far more choice from actual open source or CC content.

Am seriously delighted that you also see this in a similar fashion.
In VAM1, animation speed and quality of collisions is Light years ahead of what can be achieved in DAZ in 2025.
That's not even a debate.
And keeping tabs on DAZ's development and priorities for years now, have to say it is likely that will remain so, for a LONG time.

This raises a question for MeshedVR and maybe team?
With what you wrote, and for Long forseeable future that DAZ will not make anything remotely competitive with VAM's soft physics system,
why not add another licensing component that allows render-captures, exactly for VNs like Renpy?
In what way would you be in favor with that?

Why?
Would say, almost all better Renpy novels have a commercial component (Patreon - others - Steam).
Given the huge time & know-how & 3d-asset and pc-hardware investments to produce quality, would surmise that there only a handful of independently wealthy, or well paid from another source in 1st world and wish to use piles of their free time for the occasional thank-you's. Your immense generosity is almost like a dream in this world. Not kidding. (hope you don't take that as anything but a massive compliment But many of us can't afford to put in huge chunks of time without an offset for real-life costs that we can't escape. For example, MeshedVR as of today has 16,167 paid members on patreon plus partial receipts from other sales like Itchio (is where i bought). Idea being that high-quality content creators may need funding help too.

But I suspect that a lot of people are probably not even aware of the existence of VAM or too afraid to dive into it. (which is strange to me because I find Daz far worst when it comes to UX and production).

But that's my take on it... someday I'll take the time to make a short demo of what you could achieve with VAM in the renpy engine

To expound on this a bit futher.
I saw videos of VAM many times over the years. Initial reaction based on what i saw in the wild was - meh.
Some reactions then were lighting looked marginal, hair looked poor. Offset by quality physics.
But having been spending time in VAM i see now many of those produced videos do not show at all the full potential.

That said, the environments and assets in DAZare way more prolific and quality, and lighting with Nvidia's IRAY stands way above anything VAM can do.
But flipside is VAM is realtime, and collisions work more often than not very well.
So maybe a blend using the best of both worlds?

Currently am still working on hard on integrating all the VAM1 possibilities.
This translates into that am currently way too preoccupied to even look at VAM2, so am not subbed to MeshedVR.
Not sure if or how this idea of another licence for VAM to accomodate render-captures to sync with VN has been discussed or proposed or revisited given the growing popularity of VN.

Based on what you wrote so far, it does sound like you can see see the huge benefits of VAM and VNs? But not sure how you see commercial aspects fitting with that.

Would love to hear suggestions or insight on this 'discussion" idea.
Of course, any kind of feedback (known or direct) from MeshVR/team on this avenue for additional licensing would be extra grand.
Suppose i will evenetually sub to his VAM2, and ask then, but it will be a while, and knowing the landscape ahead sooner would be infinitely more helpful.

 

[FantasiWrapper]

... someday I'll take the time to make a short demo of what you could achieve with VAM in the renpy engine

i really hope you do

 

[hazmhox]

Am seriously delighted that you also see this in a similar fashion.
In VAM1, animation speed and quality of collisions is Light years ahead of what can be achieved in DAZ in 2025.
That's not even a debate.
And keeping tabs on DAZ's development and priorities for years now, have to say it is likely that will remain so, for a LONG time.

Yeah I think so too. But I suspect people are kind of fan of the "offline render" of Daz (even if only a thing margin of Renpy novels are actually well light and look very nice).

This raises a question for MeshedVR and maybe team?
With what you wrote, and for Long forseeable future that DAZ will not make anything remotely competitive with VAM's soft physics system,
why not add another licensing component that allows render-captures, exactly for VNs like Renpy?
In what way would you be in favor with that?

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt and as my own point of view, and it is absolutely not the vision or stance or meshed (or the team). That said your question is interesting, but I suspect that Daz will need to keep it's licensing income. No matter how I try to approach this in my head, there are several results possible :

• If Daz would let VAM users use content without licensing and allow VAM as a mean to capture/render. It means the cost would be offseted to Meshed LLC... without any advantage. So, unless there's a clear "pro" to do that, meshed would probably have more licensing cost. From a company perspective, it means that it would be smart to offset the cost on the game itself.
• If Daz wouldn't ask for more, then they're loosing on assets licensing. So, it's a loose/loose scenario. Anyone could use any of the high quality stuffs made for VAM without spending a dime... and get income from their renders/games. I don't see where this would be a smart choice.

I don't think there's even a world where a company like Daz would authorize that. This is not like they need the publicity, they're selling and don't need VAM to make profits. So I suspect it's highly unlikely to ever happen.

Why?
Would say, almost all better Renpy novels have a commercial component (Patreon - others - Steam).
Given the huge time & know-how & 3d-asset and pc-hardware investments to produce quality, would surmise that there only a handful of independently wealthy, or well paid from another source in 1st world and wish to use piles of their free time for the occasional thank-you's. Your immense generosity is almost like a dream in this world. Not kidding. (hope you don't take that as anything but a massive compliment But many of us can't afford to put in huge chunks of time without an offset for real-life costs that we can't escape. For example, MeshedVR as of today has 16,167 paid members on patreon plus partial receipts from other sales like Itchio (is where i bought). Idea being that high-quality content creators may need funding help too.

Thank you, and yes there are reason why I do what I do without making it paid. And you're right, I'm not against PC, I do get the business model of selling your time... this is completely normal.

But this "confirms" what I said above. If as an independent artist, you can get incomes from a game (so a renpy novel), then, if you save time from whatever content ( looks, assets etc... ), it's only normal to require licensing.

It's like assets for instance, let's say texturing. Either you learn Blender and use the painting tools in it... which are great but far less powerful than Painter for instance. So either you go free/open-source OR you use powerful tools and you need to license them.

That said, the environments and assets in DAZare way more prolific and quality, and lighting with Nvidia's IRAY stands way above anything VAM can do.
But flipside is VAM is realtime, and collisions work more often than not very well.
So maybe a blend using the best of both worlds?

I highly doubt that working with both would be efficient ^^ (at least from an offline render aspect)
This is a perception issue anyway. I'd prefer sacrificing on lighting quality and gain a lot on the workflow (as VAM allows) than going Daz just for Iray which honestly is not even close to any other renderer...even EEVEE looks better if you use it properly... (or maybe it's just renpy artists that are not very good with lighting?).

Also, Daz is not "more prolific/quality" than VAM's hub. Most assets are produced by independent artists. Just like VAM. It's the same thing. If some people would dedicate their time on VAM's hub to provide high tier enviros or assets, it would be the same. We just lack that because it's a shit ton of work and there's not like a "shop" system like Daz offers where artists could make an income out of it.

Currently am still working on hard on integrating all the VAM1 possibilities.
This translates into that am currently way too preoccupied to even look at VAM2, so am not subbed to MeshedVR.
Not sure if or how this idea of another licence for VAM to accomodate render-captures to sync with VN has been discussed or proposed or revisited given the growing popularity of VN.

We would need to see an actual "need" for VN made with VAM to see if it's worth to accomodate anything tho. At the time this is not really the case.

Based on what you wrote so far, it does sound like you can see see the huge benefits of VAM and VNs? But not sure how you see commercial aspects fitting with that.

Yup I do, because I see how powerful VAM is when it comes to customizing your scene. It's far more powerful than Daz since you could do pretty much anything. But it requires you to have an insane skillset. I suspect people doing VN are just passionate about outputting static images/short videos and telling a story. If you look at some of them, even the like... 5 secs loops are not even very well animated. Which you could get far better in a couple of clip and with just a basic cycle force in VAM.

I'm pretty sure there's just like, a lack of knowledge on what VAM can achieve... OR as I was saying, a preference towards offline renders (even tho I think in most case, you could get similar results in VAM with a bit of work... but you know, you'd need to work )

 

[SlimerJSpud]

There's a saying in the Daz world whenever the issue of learning curve and difficulty comes up: "There's no 'Make Art' button."

People who render in Daz with Iray can achieve fantastic results, better than Vam, IMO, but that's a skillset too. People who have studied photography or painting know about painting a subject with light far more than amateurs (like me) fiddling around. Animation in Daz is more painful than a root canal. Some guy had his computer rendering for MONTHS to produce a very nice short film. Daz doesn't care about soft body physics as their primary market is still image renders. You don't need physics for that.

 

[hazmhox]

Honestly, I'm not sure what their primary market is besides selling stuffs. Daz does not evolve much. It is a "101" of what you should not do for UX and overall UI design or workflow. Blender evolves 5 times faster and it's an open source/community project.

 

[w0nderfulll]

im cooked

 

[FantasiWrapper]

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt and as my own point of view, and it is absolutely not the vision or stance or meshed (or the team). That said your question is interesting, but I suspect that Daz will need to keep it's licensing income. No matter how I try to approach this in my head, there are several results possible :

• but you know, you'd need to work )

hi, back again.

First thanx for all your insights. Appreciate them!
A ton of responses popped up as i read and re-read what you wrote.
Most responses will keep private to avoid starting book essays

In other words, does seem to me, that at this point, the proof is in the pudding.
Basically a response to: "We would need to see an actual "need" for VN made with VAM to see if it's worth to accomodate anything tho. At the time this is not really the case. "
fyi: own alot of expensive licensed 3d stuff, and made own stuff, so legalities should be met or attended to.
Will work on this. Will take time.

Only thing i'll comment on quicker is DAZ/VAM work-flow.
(1) Am not at all seeing it as "efficient ^^"; my comments weren't intending that to be the message. Instead as a necessary and costly evil.
And a difficult way to blend 2 artistic appearances.
DAZ Environment assets like from Linday or Stonemason and others, i have not seen one environment in VAM that is similar in quality.
Like https://www.daz3d.com/natural-stone-poolside-and-scenes
If you know of any would love to hear!
It is from this POV, that i said what i did.
Skyboxes maybe?

Still trying to figure out possibilies.

(2) The G2 -DAZ - VAM connection is a huge intricate business relationship. Am extremely sensitive to "people want their dues" and similar.
And i think any VN using both DAZ-VAM would have to be built with sensitivity to survive the eventual 'reporting' that would occur.

(3) re: intriguing discussion point on DAZ, and them missing out on some licensing. Take for example, Renderotica.
Biggest portion of their assets are meant for DAZ or to be used in DAZ Studio.
Am not aware of any payments to DAZ, or any relationship. DAZ is fully aware of their presence. The way i see it, those sold products are using DAZ for free.

Suspect as a newcomer, i see VAM's venue of paid ecosystem and some of it's assets a bit differently.
DAZ has shied away from adult content for a reason, yet they also know full well that indirectly they benefit from being part of the adult ecosystem, but in a very hands-off way.
Have my reasons for saying that as an observation formed over many years, but i doubt that a public discourse at length is something that DAZ would be something they would want. So will stop there.

Your insights have been very helpful to identify possible 'minefields' and challenges. Thanks

 

[FantasiWrapper]

Daz doesn't care about soft body physics as their primary market is still image renders. You don't need physics for that.

Today and going forward in DAZneyland that is true.
That is DAZ's priority.
As written in post above adult/NSFW is something they have shied away from, but renderotica still exists.

And so do Many adult VNs using DAZ.
Where there is a lurking wish (easier animations/skin collisions),
often a new way is made in the market to address that, if possible.

Today, would argue, VAM > Blender for many reasons.