Question (Timeline) Cannot add targets in a new layer

[Wolforano]

Hello!

When i create a new layer in timeline and press the "+" next to "Targets", the controllers-section is empty. I can add targets only via "Select from Scene" and selecting every single target after another. Normally, when I add a new animation, its quite easy to add new targets by simply clicking "Add" several times until all targets are added.

How do I add all controllers as targets in a new layer, without selecting every single target in a scene?

 

[Acid Bubbles]

That's the first I hear of this? The only situation that would result in the drop down being empty is if you had already added all controllers of the current atom. You can only add controllers owned by the current atom.

Can you reproduce this in new scenes? If this is only in a specific scene, can you send it to me with instructions of what you're doing? Or maybe screenshots could help me see what's wrong here.

 

[Wolforano]

Hey Acid. Somehow I cannot reproduce that problem anymore, in any scene. So consider this error as solved.

But I can tell you that there was no controller added so far.

If I encounter this issue again, I will post here and link the relevant scenes and so on.

Thanks for your quick help!

 

[Acid Bubbles]

Yes, definitely if you have a clue how to reproduce, I'd love to hear about it! Also make sure to check if there might have been an error in the Error Log (in the main menu bar), this could give very useful clues.

 

[Wolforano]

Ok, now I know what is going on...

When I have two layers, lets say Layer 1 and Layer 2, and I add "Head" as a controller to Layer 1, the list of available controllers to add in Layer 2 is reduced by "Head" now. Instead of 32 controllers to choose from, I can only choose from 31 controllers. So it seems one controller can't be inserted into two different layers.

The weird thing is: if I select "Select from Scene", I can indeed choose the head.

Shouldn't it be possible to have all 32 controllers in several layers?

This is also the reason why I can't apply poses anymore in most of my scenes, because the poses are not saved because the necessary controllers are not added (although I thought I added all!).

Here is a video that shows what I mean:

 

[Acid Bubbles]

Being able to select the same controller on multiple layers is actually a bug then

Layers are "groups of controllers or targets animated separately from each other". It wouldn't make sense to have the same target on two layers, since one would simply overwrite what the other does. It makes sense to have two clips of the same layer sharing the same targets so they can blend though.

The use case Timeline doesn't currently handle well is if you want two completely separate animations in the same instance, each having their own layers structure. That's something I'd like to add eventually so you can import any animation and blend from one to the other. Currently the only way to do that would be to have two Timeline instances.

It's nice though to hear about those things, thanks for taking the time to explain it!

 

[AnythingFashionVR]

Being able to select the same controller on multiple layers is actually a bug then

Layers are "groups of controllers or targets animated separately from each other". It wouldn't make sense to have the same target on two layers, since one would simply overwrite what the other does. It makes sense to have two clips of the same layer sharing the same targets so they can blend though.

The use case Timeline doesn't currently handle well is if you want two completely separate animations in the same instance, each having their own layers structure. That's something I'd like to add eventually so you can import any animation and blend from one to the other. Currently the only way to do that would be to have two Timeline instances.

It's nice though to hear about those things, thanks for taking the time to explain it!

Hi acidbubbles. Firstly I’d like to say timeline is an amazing plug-in and for mocap cleanup and editing in VR it is a brilliant tool. I have used motionbuilder for many years for doing motion capture clean up but now timeline has become my favourite tool of choice. There is one thing though that I cannot achieve with the current layer system. I will explain the workflow in motion builder so you can understand what I wish to achieve in timeline. In motion builder I would have the original animation key frame track and I can add a layer track on top. This layer track allows me to make offsets to any bones on the track below and I can blend between the original track or the offset version of the track. A practical example would be. A man walks up to a table then the hand reaches out to pick up a cup. He then moves his hand to his mouth. In the original motion the hand would not be perfectly aligned to hold the cup and it would not be perfectly aligned to put the cup to the mouth make it look bad. I do not wish to tamper with the original motion I’d only like to correct placement. So here is where I would use a layer track without deleting any original keys. On layer one I would add a zero key to all bones at the beginning and another zero key frame before the hand reaches out. Zero key just means don’t make any offsets. Then as the hand becomes closer to picking up the cup I would make the offset key so the hand is correctly placed on the cup. Then as the hand moves to the mouth I would make another offset key so the hand and the cup is correctly placed to the mouth. Once the hand moves away from the mouth and puts the cup back down i can zero the key frame back so the hand is back following the original motion without any offsets affecting it. Now to my understanding of timeline I cannot add the same controllers to a layer and blend between the original Track and the offset layer. So my question is was there another way to achieve this type offsetting correction without tempering with deleting the original key frames ? I know I can bulk edit the whole track with offsets corrections but in most cases the original track would only needs tweaks at certain times in the animation. Sorry for the huge post I hope it makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to read.