Agreed. This is probably a small company with low budget and resources.
Please consider creating Kids and Education Portals
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I was the IT manager for a multimillion dollar US company with over 500 employees spanning the globe and responsible for WRITING the programs that were used to propel it to first place in their quadrant.
You are a troll, I'm a retired man with nothing but fun as my daily goal.
Good luck in your wonderful country, may you find yourself living in interesting times.
I'm also from the US but I'm one of the Big majority of all Americans who hate racism and to us all people from all countries are equally respected.
Your post is reported!
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Settle down, guys. This discussion starting to get a little personal. If you want to continue in that vein, please take it to private messages.
In the past, Meshed has speculated about one day, far in the future, expanding Vam from an adult sandbox program to something more generalized and family friendly. If that happens at all, it will be many years form now.
In the past, Meshed has speculated about one day, far in the future, expanding Vam from an adult sandbox program to something more generalized and family friendly. If that happens at all, it will be many years form now.
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I don't even understand how this discussion even started, and especially, why. Especially from someone with "25+ y in software dev".
The only thing that makes VaM interesting (from an app point of view) is the power of the character system :
- Physical based animation
- Posing
- Skin rendering
- Character customization
If you remove all that VaM is what ? A basic "fork" of Unity's Editor allowing you to create a couple of scripted scenes with a couple of custom assets... with a (kinda) more friendly UI than a super technical editor targetting developers.
Unless you wanted to teach anatomy, there is absolutely nothing incredible about VaM besides the character system. (and it comes from someone who loves VaM).
Any basic VR implementation can be done in Unity or UE in a couple of hours. And you would be better of starting from scratch if your goal is to do anything BUT using the character system.
Think about the goal, think about the needs : that's how you develop an app/game.
I don't see any pros at using VaM if the character system is not the core focus of the app/game.
That's like saying that it would be cool to use Google (the search engine) as a base to create a social network "because it's a website". Yes, it's website, yes it has html/css/js. But the core code itself is a search engine and makes absolutely no sense to use that as the base code to create a social network.
The only thing that makes VaM interesting (from an app point of view) is the power of the character system :
- Physical based animation
- Posing
- Skin rendering
- Character customization
If you remove all that VaM is what ? A basic "fork" of Unity's Editor allowing you to create a couple of scripted scenes with a couple of custom assets... with a (kinda) more friendly UI than a super technical editor targetting developers.
Unless you wanted to teach anatomy, there is absolutely nothing incredible about VaM besides the character system. (and it comes from someone who loves VaM).
Any basic VR implementation can be done in Unity or UE in a couple of hours. And you would be better of starting from scratch if your goal is to do anything BUT using the character system.
Think about the goal, think about the needs : that's how you develop an app/game.
I don't see any pros at using VaM if the character system is not the core focus of the app/game.
That's like saying that it would be cool to use Google (the search engine) as a base to create a social network "because it's a website". Yes, it's website, yes it has html/css/js. But the core code itself is a search engine and makes absolutely no sense to use that as the base code to create a social network.
HolySchmidt
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@DJ
Finally someone from the mod-team is intervening.
To be honest: I personally think there's lack of interaction from the board team. And you DJ are explicitly not adressed. I mean who is schnazzn?? Last seen September 2020! Kick this person!
All others, except meshed who is no mod anyway, have a very low message count. I know, not much to do in here, but doing nothing is not what moderators should do in my eyes. Just my 2 cents.
@DJ
Finally someone from the mod-team is intervening.
To be honest: I personally think there's lack of interaction from the board team. And you DJ are explicitly not adressed. I mean who is schnazzn?? Last seen September 2020! Kick this person!
All others, except meshed who is no mod anyway, have a very low message count. I know, not much to do in here, but doing nothing is not what moderators should do in my eyes. Just my 2 cents.
LEL and KEK
HolySchmidt
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I see you mastered every level of communication that is to be mastered. Well done little Joe. Go play somewhere else. " IT manager for a multimillion dollar US company with over 500 employees spanning the globe", for sure.
I'm not sure if I agree with you. I was able to create my Meditation Scene using VAM in 5 minutes., a beautiful environment asset with a Guru "Person" who does the chants. Are saying using unity is will be faster?
Heh, I could post my W2. Do you know what that is? I'm sure that no amount of proof would suffice for someone like you.
I hope you get the happiness you deserve.
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From "teach them basic words or alphabets" to "create my Meditation Scene using VAM in 5 minutes" real quick.
It seems like you're throwing out ideas finding a way to imagine alternate uses, but you don't really have a concrete/solid scope nor a goal in mind.
You either are doing a new educational app which removes every character systems and sexual content. Or you just simply fork VaM by keeping everything and removing the sexual aspect.
When you're talking about your meditation scene, it just is VaM used as a non-sexual sandbox to produce content. You're just asking for a sandbox poser app with a few scripting abilities. It's not like it has "more potential" than before, it's just you, using it differently. If you look at my content, at least half of it would work outside of a sexual context... and I never needed a new version of VaM to do that.
The sheer complexity of the scripting system and animation system of VaM makes it hard to go further than simply putting a few assets together, doing a few triggers and a couple of animation for a couple of characters. As soon as you need really advanced and complex systems, you will have to rely on Unity and external softwares. Stasis Lab is one of the best example for that: from the enviro to the animated assets, including VFX and sounds, doing that inside VaM only would have been a nightmare.
To get back on your "teaching alphabets" example, making an advanced interactive system, VR or not, for kids... to teach them words and letters, is gonna be a long process and extremely complex scene. If it was the main goal of a specific "new version" of VaM, I think that, yes... using Unity would be faster for this objective.
And to also get back on your meditation example, you're looking at this the wrong way. If it really took you 5 minutes :
- You already know VaM pretty well
- You have no animation, or almost none (or you used community animations)
- You used assets from the community (from the enviro to your sounds and so on...)
- The scene is most certainly extremely basic
So, to summarize, your are either :
- Talking about a couple of similar concepts as VaM (a bit of scripting and asset import abilities) constrained into an app with a specific goal (teaching alphabets). For this, making something from scratch would be the wise choice. As I was saying before, VaM as nothing extraordinary to offer if you remove the characters.
- Talking about just VaM with all its awesome features, including characters, posing and animation without its sexual aspect. And for this, I would agree, making a fork of it, and removing sexual organs and the ability to remove clothes is enough.
That said, in the second situation, VaM is far from user friendly. If you wanted to bring it to a more casual / family friendly target, you would have to work a lot on the bugs, on the UI and UX, and make the scripting system way easier. Stability, optimization... and so on.
In the game industry, looking at something that might be good for your project is not always the thing you should use. You may find the CryEngine beautiful, but it might not fit your needs for the networking abilities for instance... or you would have to code everything by yourself, and your studio might not be able to afford it.
It's exactly the same when you look at VaM. It's not because it's a sandbox with a lot of customization abilities that it fits any goal you have in mind or is the best and most optimal choice to make.
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DarkFantasy
Well-known member
I think you are underestimating just how stubborn and judgemental people in general are. I cannot imagine a bunch of parents finding out the platform their kids school is using for some of its education is also, and started as, a VR porn app. VAM would make the front page of every news source out there. Basically, VAM would be targeted and shut down or driven further underground in a heartbeat.
I have many questions:
- (key question - pursue/no pursue) - I have not seen a decent problem statement in this thread. What are you trying to solve for?
- How would the VAM rated G fork be licensed?
- How would the existing scripts be licensed?
- (key question - pursue/no pursue) - Who has the ability to lobby for and push this to education? (not an easy feat by a long shot if you have ever tried to sell tech or tech services to education at any level)
*Also, I think most of the people that are involved with VAM are associated with IT in some way. It is early days and VAM still requires a good deal of knowledge and experience in several technical areas.
I think you are heavily confusing my suggestion.
VAM is for adults and will remains like that. The New suggested portal will have nothing to do with VAM.
I did not suggest to create a kid section in VAM website. What I did suggest was to create a New portal based on technology used in VAM . This will be a brand New Website and it's name clearly wouldn't be VAM. It will be for Kids from the start page and there is no reference to porn at all .
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DarkFantasy
Well-known member
Yes, I get that and even if you create a separate fork with a separate dev team, label, formal company, etc how long do you think it would take for something as juicy as "Did you know the new program the school is using started as a poorrrnnn app? {gasp!!!}" to get out? On second thought, that might actually be fun to watch... lol
Hedgepig
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I'm a recluse, I don't use social media, and I hadn't considered how the media work . Yep, that's exactly what would happen. Meshed and creators would get hounded to hell. Nightmare. Don't do this!
I've stumbled on this months later and don't really want to reinvigorate what seemed to be a testy debate, but the original poster and some others had a good point. VAM is as close to what I imagine when people use the term "metaverse." It's designed in a way that is communitarian in nature since users create most of the content and is able to literally deliver dreams to your headset of both a sexual and non-sexual nature. All it lacks is persistence across servers and social functions, but those are not the essence of what people mean by a metaverse. What they mean is experience on demand, of any nature, with anyone in any setting. The idea of making it social and educational is another layer and not the most difficult one with the pace of sharing tech. Still, it's easier than Unity for the layman and delivers in a way that few similar scene builder and character customization apps do. The best thing about it is it's community developed like a modding community, which is a much more sustainable ethic of building out VR than more centralized developer controlled assets. It's definitely not usable in its current form for anything having to do with civil society, but let's be real, this app is much more than a porn app.
