Question New to VR - best gang for buck headsets that don't require FB ?

[Jonnecy]

So, I recently got into VaM and now want to get a VR headset. My budget is around $500-600, preferably not an Oculus (Zuc doesn't nee to know what I'm fapping to...).
Are there any other affordable VR headsets that have been reported to work well with VaM ?

 

[Starspawn]

A secondhand Vive or Odyssey+ are probably your best bet outside of Quest2. The midrange VR bracket has been weird: MS didn't bother supporting WMR apparently, HTC is incompetent as usual and now Facebook is scaring everyone away with their loss leader antics.

 

[Jonnecy]

thanks for the reply.
if I upped my budget, what about an Index ?

 

[Starspawn]

I love my Index. If you can comfortably afford one and you're going to use it often, its a great choice. It has a lot of features that don't get enough attention because people are too busy comparing raw pixel density like its the only thing that matters. But when you're spending hours in VAM you want to be comfortable, have a nice FOV and wiggly fingers that are being tracked no matter where you're putting them.

 

[Lione]

But Oculus does not track what you consume regarding non Facebook Social Apps.. It is clearly stated in ther Data Privacy Terms and Oculus Terms.
People should stop thinking that.

Meta

www.oculus.com

The Quest 2 is a Masterpiece of VR Hardware and a blast for VAM due to its Standalone and Hand Tracking Leap Motion Support.
Picture Quality is also really good.
And it is so well Supported with current VR Tech.
Constantly Updated.

I mean i have like 6 Headsets and sure VIVE and others a awesome also for it.
If you want a Unwired Solution then the Quest 2 is what you currently should get in my opinion.

 

[rabbit1qaz]

Does any one have Pimax 8K X and ( Index or Reverb G2 )? which one you prefer (im intrested for VAM use only)? i have pimax 8K X and when i look at sth directly that it look simply fantastic, every detail on skin and so on. But if i change eye angle a bit then view is blurred. so i wonder if it can be better with other high quality sets.

 

[Starspawn]

I don't have personal experience with Pimax but I've been told it has image blearing at the sides due to software tricks it uses to increase its fov? Or maybe you're just having issues with the lens sweetspot.

The only other hmd that gives a damn about fov is Index sadly and even it isn't enough. The other HMDs I've tried are like scuba masks though. Index sweetspot is pretty average, I don't notice blurring except at the extreme edges.

 

[rernat]

Not sure if other headsets do support this for vam too. But if you plan to completely possess a person in VAM (walk around and move your waist etc.) you can use additional Trackers witth a VIVE. For example those trackers can be attached to your legs and/or your hip . Attaching them to toys is also a common way to play with additional trackers.
Of course this is not the cheapest variant. Maybe look at second hand market.

 

[TToby]

If you look for a Vive, Vive Pro or even Index on the 2nd market, be sure you will get the full set. The lighthouse stations and the controllers of Vive/Pro can be used with the Valve Index headset (which alone is pretty cheap for what you will get), so you will find many many cheap Vive HMDs, but without those needed parts.

As Starspawn said, the Index is a great HMD taken everything together. There are other HMDs outside with some single features better on paper, but the Index is still a very good overall package with the objectively best available tracking system.
BUT, if you are on a budget and a broken HMD-cable would ruin your wallet, for instance (happened to me two times), then maybe you want to give a try to those artifically cheap and substituted Facebook HMDs, which are driving away many other potentially new products. They are really great for the money, but you have to pay for everything in life. If something looks too good/cheap to be true, it most likely is not true (Hint: In Germany the Quest 2 is even forbidden to be sold, because of privacy and other therms).

For a complete oversight: There is a potentially new HMD coming called Deca Gear. It is basically a Inside-out tracking "Reverb 2 -clone" with full SteamVR support, a wireless option and with a very cheap price tag. The release termin was just delayed "because of Covid" from May to September, and I wouldn't bet money on it to even be seen on any shop shelves. Though, I pledget for a pre-order buying-option myself.

 

[MacGruber]

@TToby Uh, thx....this Deca Gear system looks really interesting. Face/Mouth/Tongue/Eye tracking, Finger tracking, Hip tracking (DecaMove) as well as wireless support (DecaAir). That combined with higher resolution....and no Facebook. That could be a game changer. If they can deliver what they promise, certainly worth keeping an eye on.

 

[Codepwned]

Steam Index is one of the best out there bang for the buck quality wise until you get to the $5000 + systems. They're turnaround right now is a week where it used to be 3+ months.

 

[keycode]

...and wich decaRTX ghost card can move such 8k nonsense (speaking about "restOFtheGear" point of view) ???

 

[MacGruber]

...and wich decaRTX ghost card can move such 8k nonsense (speaking about "restOFtheGear" point of view) ???

The DecaGear only got 4K resolution? Especially with DLSS for VR as well as proper foveated rendering because the device can know where your eyes look at, the higher resolution shouldn't be a problem. Currently I'm running VaM with 8xMSAA and resolution scale on a RTX2070, I would expect that to be comparable. Of course we have to hope VaM 2.x will support DLSS and foveated rendering.

 

[keycode]

The DecaGear only got 4K resolution? Especially with DLSS for VR as well as proper foveated rendering because the device can know where your eyes look at, the higher resolution shouldn't be a problem. Currently I'm running VaM with 8xMSAA and resolution scale on a RTX2070, I would expect that to be comparable. Of course we have to hope VaM 2.x will support DLSS and foveated rendering.

I was a lot near to buy a reverb G2, very happy and trustful after getting a honestly priced 3070 (+i7 10700)... then I was considering some serious talks in our Vam discord (IMHO they seem to get relatively poor, sad performance with the *actual* VAM)... from guys with 3090 and even better cpu (than mine). In the end, as I play just and only VAM in VR, I think I better stay with my good rift-s ... at least till they make a real alternative to the oculus toy-MOAN-quest2 ...hopefully with better field of view (primary need!!!) and an optional display port output instead of that ridiculous cable usb-link. Those pixels I can see, thanks to the rtx3070, are not so terrible even in the old rift-s. Anyway the DecaGear looks with very honest price and hopefully it should give a very good kick in the ass to the ambitious companies involved in VR affair. Who knows if I could still play Vam when that bright day will arrive. :-(

 

[Fferrett]

Eventually someone will hack a quest 2 to get rid of the Facebook cuck who likes to watch us.

The hardware is solid, especially with a pro aftermarket strap. I'd avoid the extra battery in the HMD strap and just run a wire to one in your pocket to keep the weight off of your head. The best thing about the quest 2 is currently the completely wireless airlink that makes a fully cordless VR PC experience possible. Match that with a solid display that puts the original rift to shame, and its a nice package for $299. VAM does fine with cabled oculus link, wireless virtual desktop integration with Steam VR or the beta air link.

The biggest limitation to quality using VAM 1.x and any new HMD is VAM. You can throw beefy hardware at VAM 1.x and it really can't take advantage of it using old Unity. Would love to see an actual release timeline - and happy to support funding towards a target.

 

[keycode]

The DecaGear only got 4K resolution? Especially with DLSS for VR as well as proper foveated rendering because the device can know where your eyes look at, the higher resolution shouldn't be a problem. Currently I'm running VaM with 8xMSAA and resolution scale on a RTX2070, I would expect that to be comparable. Of course we have to hope VaM 2.x will support DLSS and foveated rendering.

I thought it was 4k per eye (the DecaGear) that's why my (perhaps) excessive fear that with our beloved VAM 1x (and reading Reverb g2 nvidia forums, also with other VR stuff) we can actually have really poor FPS even with optimal 3090 dream-based hardware.
But here in Euro zone... besides this, which normal player can afford 3k euro cost for a gpu that prob. will be surpassed soon by the next generation Nvidia? Having also some doubts that scalpers will stop making for us impossible to get honest prices for any present and future gpu capable to play without issues a double 4k display.... unless they find a coop-solution for getting a headset internal gpu (like oculus quest) to work in tandem with our standard PC graphics... a sinergy between smartphone and pc that actually looks just science fiction if not a heresy.

 

[TToby]

The DecaGear only got 4K resolution? Especially with DLSS for VR as well as proper foveated rendering because the device can know where your eyes look at, the higher resolution shouldn't be a problem. Currently I'm running VaM with 8xMSAA and resolution scale on a RTX2070, I would expect that to be comparable. Of course we have to hope VaM 2.x will support DLSS and foveated rendering.

@MacGruber I followed all the news and stuff from the DecaGear creators very closely for some months. I think those guys are honestly trying to bring out their HMD as soon and as good as possible.... but I also think they have underestimated the development costs and process and all the oddities of the market. They allready have delayed the release by nearly half a year to September. Keep fingers crossed they will not be eaten up by FaceBook for some million dollars at the end. According to rumors, the screen panels might be exactly the same like in the Reverb G2.

To say it clearly: Those mentioned face tracking is only for social VR apps to show emotions. This is NOT foveated rendering capable eye-tracking! That would be a real sensation, indeed!!! AFAIK there is no eye tracking solution available atm that is capable of this. Only for some easy things like "which object on the screens get the longest look-at-time" and "control the mouse cursor roughly with your eyes". There were big companies trying to develope a customer ready foveated rendering eye-tracking including Valve, FaceBook and Apple more or less successfull... but they all fail, because obviously the eye is moving too fast and with too many eyelid movement too get a very stable and failure free sub-second real-time recognition done. In theory this sounds easy, and we all thought it would be done soon when the Vive-Pro Eye came out ... but unfortunately that is already some years ago now.

 

[keycode]

(...) Currently I'm running VaM with 8xMSAA and resolution scale on a RTX2070, I would expect that to be comparable. (...)

Besides some (however useful) benchmarks results I was looking in Vam Discord, not easy to find any information about wich nvidia/amd optimal settings for VR we can try with our standard headsets (vive,oculus etc.). And still, no real useful talk about Reverb G2 high resolution performance (with Vam). Some they write "You can always downscale if your hardware is not fitting" ...but really isn't it like to buy a sport car and driving always using first gear even in the highway? edit: since I was beginning to play with VR (Vam) the only really useful thing I was finding in the web is that batch solution for shutting my oculus to a real energy saving status (lot better than to install that OculusTool bullshit app) : (fantastic for my controllers rech. battery life, but I suppose not only... can be activated only giving admin priviledge)

 

[TToby]

Besides some (however useful) benchmarks results I was looking in Vam Discord, not easy to find any information about wich nvidia/amd optimal settings for VR we can try with our standard headsets (vive,oculus etc.). And still, no real useful talk about Reverb G2 high resolution performance (with Vam). Some they write "You can always downscale if your hardware is not fitting" ...but really isn't it like to buy a sport car and driving always using first gear even in the highway? edit: since I was beginning to play with VR (Vam) the only really useful thing I was finding in the web is that batch solution for shutting my oculus to a real energy saving status: (fantastic for rech. battery life, but I suppose not only... can be activated only giving admin priviledge)

In addition to that, everybody has his/her own oppinion of what means "running OK" in VaM. Someone is happy with 30 fps and can't understand why other people are saying VaM runs slow... and other ones have 140 FPS and are still not happy because they are loading a scene with 6 light sources and 4 figures and it goes down to 70 fps. There are also those guys running the desktop mode vs those with Index 140Hz or Reverb G2 VR HMDs. Even different hair or clothes makes a big different....
To get real benchmarks, we would need a standard scene, a standard tool to measure FPS and frametimes, aso.

 

[TToby]

For those with deep pockets: There is the new HTC Vive Pro 2 about to be released in some weeks. It is 799$ for HMD only (!), and therefore doesn't apply to the original question. For those who may be interested: It has an even better higher resolution than even the HP reverb G2, PLUS Lighthouse tracking and 120Hz!!! So it combines the best features of Reverb and Index/Vive. It can be used with your current Index controllers and/or the old Vive Wands. Complete set might be 1500$!
Unfortunately it has no OLED screens anymore, like the old Vive Pro had.
It has a pair of more complicated double-lenses like the Index (might be good or bad), and a slightly higher FOV (maybe on pair with the Index?). No information at this point about image quality or godrays and stuff like that. Overall quality should be great, like the Vive Pro, ... service not. The Vive Pro wireless module is obviously working, but only with the smaller Vive Pro (1) resolution at max, according to some rumors.

Is it a Vive Index Killer? IMHO I don't think so. Maybe too expensive for only upgrade to a pair of better higher resolution screens, if you don't have a secret money plant in your backyard. But that depends on how badly you realy need a higher resolution for yourself. I think VaM is impressingly sharp with even an Index on 144Hz and 200% supersampling, if you want to stress-test your 3090/6900xt. Though, it will be a Vive Pro killer, for sure, if you won't be used to the good old lens-mod.
In my oppinion, it is great to have an other high-specs non-facebook Lighthouse Tracking competitor on the market!

 

[noknife]

i know this thread is starting to stale but im curious if anyone has gottten the decamove to work with vam yet. i only have the free app and cant get it to work in vam. aint buying one if it doesnt.

 

[TToby]

i know this thread is starting to stale but im curious if anyone has gottten the decamove to work with vam yet. i only have the free app and cant get it to work in vam. aint buying one if it doesnt.

Hi, I have preordered the DecaGear and am a member of the Deca Discord Cannel, but skipped the DecaMove so far because of not having too much use of it. But it is definitely very interesting. It should work with everything that uses the VR controllers to aim with a weapon/hands plus the head to look around and to move in the direction you look, with no need to add anything to the game itself. This genious idea is done by constantly measuring the angle between head movement and hip movement and constantly substracting the difference from your controller input, so that you can virtually move the head independently from your look/move direction.
In THEORY, this should work in VaM out of the box, too, but so you usually don't move in the look direction in VaM like you would do in a 1st person shooter, there is IMHO nothing useful the DecaMove can do. It is NOT A TRACKER in the usual sense. AFAIK it can't recognize it's position in full 3D space, but only can measure the angle between DecaMove and Headset. If it could do so, it would be indeed a much bigger sensation as it actually is.
I would be glad if I would be prooven wrong by someone else, but as far as I have understand how it works, I unfortunately can't see any benefit for using it with VaM.
But IF I am wrong or if there would be a mod or something, then I am sure MeshedVR would add any necessary support to VaM, as AFAIK him he likes all new gadgeds the same way we all do.

 

[noknife]

Hi, I have preordered the DecaGear and am a member of the Deca Discord Cannel, but skipped the DecaMove so far because of not having too much use of it. But it is definitely very interesting. It should work with everything that uses the VR controllers to aim with a weapon/hands plus the head to look around and to move in the direction you look, with no need to add anything to the game itself. This genious idea is done by constantly measuring the angle between head movement and hip movement and constantly substracting the difference from your controller input, so that you can virtually move the head independently from your look/move direction.
In THEORY, this should work in VaM out of the box, too, but so you usually don't move in the look direction in VaM like you would do in a 1st person shooter, there is IMHO nothing useful the DecaMove can do. It is NOT A TRACKER in the usual sense. AFAIK it can't recognize it's position in full 3D space, but only can measure the angle between DecaMove and Headset. If it could do so, it would be indeed a much bigger sensation as it actually is.
I would be glad if I would be prooven wrong by someone else, but as far as I have understand how it works, I unfortunately can't see any benefit for using it with VaM.
But IF I am wrong or if there would be a mod or something, then I am sure MeshedVR would add any necessary support to VaM, as AFAIK him he likes all new gadgeds the same way we all do.

ohh jeeze I get it now. thanks for setting me straight. now I know why i can't find info about it.