Question Genesis 2 to 8/8.1 (update 2.x)

[Toonen1988]

Hello everyone, sorry if this question has been asked earlier or has been addressed in an official statement. But as for now, I can't find any information about something I want to know something. Update 2.x is coming, when we don't know yet but it's coming. One feature I'm looking for is the Genesis upgrade.

My question is very simple when 2.x will be released, can we simply import all older Genesis 2 characters from 1.x to the new Genisis 8 in 2.x. Or do we need to save all the Morphs settings and then import it to Genesis 8 in update 2.x, if this is going to work. Maybe it's a bit early to ask, but I want to continue with the characters I made after 2.x update and not start all over again.

Update 2.x will be the next generation of VaM, but have we considered that older content might glitch or not work with the newer version. I don't want to lose my characters and upgrade them to Genesis 8/8.1 but also other content, like clothing. I also saw in an official statement that VaM 1.x uses Physx version 3.3.3. and VaM 2.x version 4.1. Have we considered that other content can glitch like clothing and other content.

I'm not an asset creator myself, so I don't know how some program's/software works, but stuff like this also worries me a lot. And I don't want anyone's hard work go to waste. It's maybe an idea to give asset creators early access to the newest build, to test out how older content will behave with update 2.x, before releasing to public. Just giving a idea.

 

[Mantamo]

Hello everyone, sorry if this question has been asked earlier or has been addressed in an official statement. But as for now, I can't find any information about something I want to know something. Update 2.x is coming, when we don't know yet but it's coming. One feature I'm looking for is the Genesis upgrade.

My question is very simple when 2.x will be released, can we simply import all older Genesis 2 characters from 1.x to the new Genisis 8 in 2.x. Or do we need to save all the Morphs settings and then import it to Genesis 8 in update 2.x, if this is going to work. Maybe it's a bit early to ask, but I want to continue with the characters I made after 2.x update and not start all over again.

Update 2.x will be the next generation of VaM, but have we considered that older content might glitch or not work with the newer version. I don't want to lose my characters and upgrade them to Genesis 8/8.1 but also other content, like clothing. I also saw in an official statement that VaM 1.x uses Physx version 3.3.3. and VaM 2.x version 4.1. Have we considered that other content can glitch like clothing and other content.

I'm not an asset creator myself, so I don't know how some program's/software works, but stuff like this also worries me a lot. And I don't want anyone's hard work go to waste. It's maybe an idea to give asset creators early access to the newest build, to test out how older content will behave with update 2.x, before releasing to public. Just giving a idea.

I was told that majority of the content if not all from 1.x will NOT be compatible with 2.x since it's built so differently. 2.x will be completely it's own thing. There was some talk about community created character converter but it's not certain.

 

[Toonen1988]

I was told that majority of the content if not all from 1.x will NOT be compatible with 2.x since it's built so differently. 2.x will be completely it's own thing. There was some talk about community created character converter but it's not certain.

I was afraid of this. Hopefully we will have a character converter. But what about saving morphs and import it to VaM 2.x?

 

[Mantamo]

I was afraid of this. Hopefully we will have a character converter. But what about saving morphs and import it to VaM 2.x?

From what I understand G2F morphs are not directly compatible with G8F but I'm guessing it could be possible with some sort of morph converter? Anyhow, when 2.X releases it seems to me that it's going to take some time before the community created content catches up. Im probably going to stick with 1.X until the 2.X will have at least decent amount of hair assets since I don't really have any patience or skill making them from scratch by myself.

 

[Toonen1988]

From what I understand G2F morphs are not directly compatible with G8F but I'm guessing it could be possible with some sort of morph converter? Anyhow, when 2.X releases it seems to me that it's going to take some time before the community created content catches up. Im probably going to stick with 1.X until the 2.X will have at least decent amount of hair assets since I don't really have any patience or skill making them from scratch by myself.

Yeah same here, I will be running two separate versions. I will keep on using 1.x and install 2.x in a separate map. My characters is the most important so I hope we can convert something in the future.

I think that atleast content creators and especially plugin makers should have early acces, so they can start early with experimenting with 2.x before the public gets access.

I'm also don't have the patience (mostly due work) to make my own things. I also have basic to no knowledge about coding, otherwise I would look into creating plugins myself. So, Im heavily dependent on the community.

 

[TToby]

We are all eagerly awaiting V2, but this is definitely an issue. I have wrote about that several times, but I think the mayority of VaM users will fully get the situation once V2 is allready there. All the cumbersom created custom looks, all the free stuff and paid content... This will be an uproar!

- The CUAs/environments are all created with a certain old Unity version. I don't know if the new one is downward compatible or if there are some ways to convert them.
- The clothes are created by wrapping them around the Genesis 2 figure with a standard shape and hight. The physics is working by connecting points on the clothes to nearby vertices of the G2 figure.
- Hair is generated procedurally and is using 3rd party tools. But it is using G2 skalps and body shapes. We allready had three different hair systems and one VaM update that has rendered all previous body hair useless. It is up to MeshedVR wether he will put ressources in finding a solution, or not.
- Every DAZ3d user knows this: with every new Genesis-generation, stuff is getting incompatible. After a while there will be some 3rd party solutions like legacy shape clones and UV-clones. But the jump from V4/Genesis/Genesis 2 to Genesis 3/8 was one of the biggest and most incompatible in DAZ history.
- There are paid 3rd party DAZ morph-converters like GenX. Unfortunately they never worked well and with all morphs. MeshedVR already mentioned some severe changes in how morphs will work. This is highly unsure.
- The texture layout from G2 to G3/8 is highly different. Arms and legs textures are seperated, for instance. Converting textures from G3/8 was never easy and definitely nothing a newcomer can do.
- Plugins highly depends on the VaM version. If they will work in an all-new V2 is highly questionable.
- Scenes are highly depending on all those current game mechanics and can easiely brake by just changing some content. If the content changes, like mentioned above, those scenes will not work anymore.

Putting all together: compatibility between V1 and V2 stuff is definitely no easy task. Nothing you can do by only changing some values or using a quickly made converter.
This would need maybe Unity converters, special G2 to G3 shape and UV- clones, pose converters, complicated morph-converters, converters that will analyze the scenes and try to repair them. Reworked plugins, aso.
To do all of this will cost a lot of time and money... maybe a complete start from zero is considered as the most simple and cleanest way, and maybe they are right

 

[Joe6Pack]

I'm holding out on getting vam UNTIL it supports Gen 8. While it's it's great for what it can do with Gen 2, it's still an ancient character model.

If you compared a Gen 2 character to Gen 8 you'd flop over stunned at how much better Gen 8 is. Imagine what you could do in vam if you had access to ALL the Gen 8 content that is out RIGHT NOW.

 

[DJ]

Yeah same here, I will be running two separate versions. I will keep on using 1.x and install 2.x in a separate map.

EVERYBODY will be running separate versions. Updating from 1.20 to 2.0 is not a thing. VaM 2.0 is a completely different program, just like , for example, Red Dead Redemption 2 is not a patch you apply to Red Dead Redemption 1. They are different games.

Also keep in mind that initially, lack of compatibility won't even be an issue in VaM 2.0, as the upcoming 2.0 alpha wont have the ability to import anything in any case. If you read the most recent announcement, you'll see that the first 2.0 release will allow models to be posed and morphed, allow basic lighting adjustment, and allow scenes to be saved and loaded. That's it. No imports. No scripts. No clothing. No hair. No animation.

Best adjust your expectations. Other features will come later, but by the time it's even possible to convert and port over G2 morphs, there will have been at least several months of community model making/sharing. I'm hoping that these models will look good enough that by the time it's possible to convert/import morphs from the current VaM, nobody will want to.

 

[TToby]

I'm holding out on getting vam UNTIL it supports Gen 8. While it's it's great for what it can do with Gen 2, it's still an ancient character model.

If you compared a Gen 2 character to Gen 8 you'd flop over stunned at how much better Gen 8 is. Imagine what you could do in vam if you had access to ALL the Gen 8 content that is out RIGHT NOW.

It will easily may last another full year untill V2 has maybe most of the important functions of V1.
You will miss a lot of fun if you will wait that long. Gen 8 looks good, no question, and the future functions of V2 will surely be great... but even without this, VaM 1.x still is (more than) worth it. Just maybe keep your expectations low that you can keep and convert (all of) your V1 stuff.

 

[Joe6Pack]

It will easily may last another full year untill V2 has maybe most of the important functions of V1.
You will miss a lot of fun if you will wait that long. Gen 8 looks good, no question, and the future functions of V2 will surely be great... but even without this, VaM 1.x still is (more than) worth it. Just maybe keep your expectations low that you can keep and convert (all of) your V1 stuff.

You're right about missing out, but I have a ton of Gen 3 and Gen 8 stuff, ZERO V1 stuff and all my Gen 3 and Gen 8 chars and custom morphs are useless in vam until the dev creates the ability import them.

I can imagine the additional complexity the dev will have to manage and FPS hits for lower end gear for the undeniable increase in CPU/GPU processing demands of using a char with WAY more polygons than the current chars, but his current models are almost 10 years old now and the difference in appearance is mind blowing. Gen 8 is photo realistic and I REALLY want custom morphs, there's just not enough variation without custom morphs.

 

[TToby]

You're right about missing out, but I have a ton of Gen 3 and Gen 8 stuff, ZERO V1 stuff and all my Gen 3 and Gen 8 chars and custom morphs are useless in vam until the dev creates the ability import them.

I can imagine the additional complexity the dev will have to manage and FPS hits for lower end gear for the undeniable increase in CPU/GPU processing demands of using a char with WAY more polygons than the current chars, but his current models are almost 10 years old now and the difference in appearance is mind blowing. Gen 8 is photo realistic and I REALLY want custom morphs, there's just not enough variation without custom morphs.

That is a valid point. It was the same for me when VaM has finally added import functions. Most of my stuff was Genesis 3, even back then. But I still had a lot of fun in VaM. I have converted my G3 clothes to G2 with simply using shape clones, have converted some of the G3 skins, re-exported many of the FaceGen faces, used GenX to convert some morph packs and have exported many of my environments to VaM via Unity. And I had a lot of fun doing this, or even to be able to do this. But, yes, I was sad not to be able to use my custom G3 characters back than, and I will be also very sad not to be able to use my precious custom VaM characters in V2. Unfortunately this is something I have experienced before with almost every new DAZ figure generation since ancient Victoria 4.

Funny fact: it is not Genesis 8 directly that has more polygones. It is the ability to use HD/HQ morphs that were introduced with G3/G8. In fact the Genesis 2 figure is even the figure with the most polygones of all Genesis models. There were a row of new technical DAZ features that makes G3/G8 looks so much better. The plain meshes or textures does not look neccessarily better than G2.
For having the "next-gen" look of the newer Genesis figures, VaM has to support those new features, too. It's not only swapping the figure's meshes.
Fortunately most of those features are allready confirmed for V2 !!!

 

[GeorgioFaust]

That is a valid point. It was the same for me when VaM has finally added import functions. Most of my stuff was Genesis 3, even back then. But I still had a lot of fun in VaM. I have converted my G3 clothes to G2 with simply using shape clones, have converted some of the G3 skins, re-exported many of the FaceGen faces, used GenX to convert some morph packs and have exported many of my environments to VaM via Unity. And I had a lot of fun doing this, or even to be able to do this. But, yes, I was sad not to be able to use my custom G3 characters back than, and I will be also very sad not to be able to use my precious custom VaM characters in V2. Unfortunately this is something I have experienced before with almost every new DAZ figure generation since ancient Victoria 4.

Funny fact: it is not Genesis 8 directly that has more polygones. It is the ability to use HD/HQ morphs that were introduced with G3/G8. In fact the Genesis 2 figure is even the figure with the most polygones of all Genesis models. There were a row of new technical DAZ features that makes G3/G8 looks so much better. The plain meshes or textures does not look neccessarily better than G2.
For having the "next-gen" look of the newer Genesis figures, VaM has to support those new features, too. It's not only swapping the figure's meshes.
Fortunately most of those features are allready confirmed for V2 !!!

Nice, when is V2 coming