Morphs AshAuryn's Pose Tools (Legacy) (Brows, Eyes, Frowns, Hands, Smiles and Visemes)

[an3k]

an3k submitted a new resource:

AshAuryn's Pose Tools (Brows, Eyes, Frowns, Hands, Smiles and Visemes) - Express Herself

Individual facial expression morphs. Mix and match and create your own expressions.

Expressions can be found in Pose Controls/Head/Expressions/Tools

Read more about this resource...

 

[Saglinger]

It doesn't seem like anyone's either noticed or just not bothered to mention it, but for some reason, the "v2 left peace" morph causes the fingers of the right hand to spread out a little bit.

 

[AshAuryn]

It doesn't seem like anyone's either noticed or just not bothered to mention it, but for some reason, the "v2 left peace" morph causes the fingers of the right hand to spread out a little bit.

Hey good catch. If there's enough interest I will update this pack.

 

[AshAuryn]

AshAuryn updated AshAuryn's Pose Tools (Legacy) (Brows, Eyes, Frowns, Hands, Smiles and Visemes) with a new update entry:

Ditch these legacy expressions

I haven't added any new expressions to this pack, but I have reorganized the regions so there is less mess in your Female Morphs categories. I have added the missing legacy Hand Pose morphs.

All of these morphs are being replaced by new, improved and updated morphs in other releases. Follow me on the Hub, or check out my Patreon for updates.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[AshAuryn]

AshAuryn updated AshAuryn's Pose Tools (Legacy) (Brows, Eyes, Frowns, Hands, Smiles and Visemes) with a new update entry:

Update coming

I am working on an update to fix backwards compatibility issues with this var, as well as provide new content, similar to the update I released for sexpressions.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[enoeht]

I'm sure you already know, but just in case, the backward compatibility issue is caused by a change in the folder structure.

The old: AshAuryn.Pose_Tools.2.var/Custom/Atom/Person/Morphs/female/AshAuryn/Pose Tools/
The new: AshAuryn.Pose_Tools.3.var/Custom/Atom/Person/Morphs/female/ASHAURYN OFFICIAL/LEGACY/
Hope this was helpful.

Also, just want to say thank you, for all of your wonder poses and expressions over the years! <3<3

 

[AshAuryn]

I'm sure you already know, but just in case, the backward compatibility issue is caused by a change in the folder structure.

The old: AshAuryn.Pose_Tools.2.var/Custom/Atom/Person/Morphs/female/AshAuryn/Pose Tools/
The new: AshAuryn.Pose_Tools.3.var/Custom/Atom/Person/Morphs/female/ASHAURYN OFFICIAL/LEGACY/
Hope this was helpful.

Also, just want to say thank you, for all of your wonder poses and expressions over the years! <3<3

Thank you!! Yep! I will be releasing a fix that reverts the old morphs to the old names and file structure, and redesigns the morphs that are already in the current file structure so that it doesn't break any content that's been created since this update was released. I will also attempt to fix any old issues, such as the hand pose morph mentioned above, and add some new content. Thanks for reaching out!

 

[bill_prime]

Thank you!! Yep! I will be releasing a fix that reverts the old morphs to the old names and file structure, and redesigns the morphs that are already in the current file structure so that it doesn't break any content that's been created since this update was released. I will also attempt to fix any old issues, such as the hand pose morph mentioned above, and add some new content. Thanks for reaching out!

@AshAuryn Hey Ash,

I went ahead and created a var that contains the new and old morphs in one file for you. I know you are working on an update, but you could upload this in the meantime if you like or maybe it helps you out.
I also included some morph presets in the file for any users that like to disable preload morphs on these morph packs.

Let me know if this helps, if so I could whip up a similar version for your legacy Expressions resource.

 

[AshAuryn]

@AshAuryn Hey Ash,

I went ahead and created a var that contains the new and old morphs in one file for you. I know you are working on an update, but you could upload this in the meantime if you like or maybe it helps you out.
I also included some morph presets in the file for any users that like to disable preload morphs on these morph packs.

Let me know if this helps, if so I could whip up a similar version for your legacy Expressions resource.

I really appreciate all that work! The issue is that I was specifically told not to release it in such a way, because it would create duplicate morphs in everyone's morph directory. After discussing possible solutions, the best solution was to modify or improve one set of morphs so that the "duplicates" wouldn't really be duplicates and would provide some value on their own. This is why it's taking some time to get the fix out -- replacing all those morphs with newer versions is very time consuming.

I created this problem in the first place, so I'm willing to put the work in to make it right. It's just going to take a little time. Thank you everyone for your patience.

 

[AshAuryn]

@AshAuryn Hey Ash,

I went ahead and created a var that contains the new and old morphs in one file for you. I know you are working on an update, but you could upload this in the meantime if you like or maybe it helps you out.
I also included some morph presets in the file for any users that like to disable preload morphs on these morph packs.

Let me know if this helps, if so I could whip up a similar version for your legacy Expressions resource.

I'm going to take you up on your offer. With so many projects running simultaneously, I haven't been able to get back to this one as quickly as I'd hoped. Thank you for taking the time to do this, since it saved me time. Apologies to everyone for allowing this issue to drag out.

 

[AshAuryn]

AshAuryn updated AshAuryn's Pose Tools (Legacy) (Brows, Eyes, Frowns, Hands, Smiles and Visemes) with a new update entry:

Fix for broken scenes after 2022 update

Thank you to @bill_prime for preparing this fix, which also includes morph presets.

As many of you know, an update to file structure and morph IDs last year caused many scenes using this legacy package to break.

I had hoped to come up with a cleaner and more elaborate fix by re-doing all of the morphs in this package with new and improved versions, and then adding the old legacy versions in as a fix. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to complete this as quickly as I...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[trety]

U were told wrong [in terms of game fps, not how fast it is in general]. Morphs does have the most impact on game fps [considering only installed content factors].

So, any duplicates are a big 'no, no'.
I did tested it a lot back in days, proof starting here: [official discord]

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.

discord.com

People also reported it's true, and most says to disable preload for any morphs you don't need at the moment.

The only way i can see it, it's to create 2 separate vars. One with legacy expressions, with preload 'off', to keep really old scenes working.
And then 2nd one with new, revamped, with preload 'on' - visible for end users\creators of new scenes.

I know some people would need to update theirs scenes to new vars [revamped morphs package rename], but thats the cost of progress, isn't it?
Updating them, and also keeping old versions duplicates - with decreasing pretty much whole community game performance is not quite correct way to do this.

 

[bill_prime]

U were told wrong [in terms of game fps, not how fast it is in general]. Morphs does have the most impact on game fps [considering only installed content factors].

So, any duplicates are a big 'no, no'.
I did tested it a lot back in days, proof starting here: [official discord]

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.

discord.com

People also reported it's true, and most says to disable preload for any morphs you don't need at the moment.

The only way i can see it, it's to create 2 separate vars. One with legacy expressions, with preload 'off', to keep really old scenes working.
And then 2nd one with new, revamped, with preload 'on' - visible for end users\creators of new scenes.

I know some people would need to update theirs scenes to new vars [revamped morphs package rename], but thats the cost of progress, isn't it?
Updating them, and also keeping old versions duplicates - with decreasing pretty much whole community game performance is not quite correct way to do this.

You can just disable preload morphs, create morph presets as needed.
Use VARManager to do both.

 

[trety]

You can just disable preload morphs, create morph presets as needed.
Use VARManager to do both.

Actually i have 2 versions of these vars with preload 'off' and 'on', and switching them accordingly to the stuff i'm gonna do in my session.
Same goes to reloaded, kemenate, and a few other 'common' morph packages.
Just pointing up, as an perfectionist to another perfectionist, this solution will bloat most users game -the ones who don't know, or just doesn't manage theirs installs much

 

[AshAuryn]

U were told wrong [in terms of game fps, not how fast it is in general]. Morphs does have the most impact on game fps [considering only installed content factors].

So, any duplicates are a big 'no, no'.
I did tested it a lot back in days, proof starting here: [official discord]

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.

discord.com

People also reported it's true, and most says to disable preload for any morphs you don't need at the moment.

The only way i can see it, it's to create 2 separate vars. One with legacy expressions, with preload 'off', to keep really old scenes working.
And then 2nd one with new, revamped, with preload 'on' - visible for end users\creators of new scenes.

I know some people would need to update theirs scenes to new vars [revamped morphs package rename], but thats the cost of progress, isn't it?
Updating them, and also keeping old versions duplicates - with decreasing pretty much whole community game performance is not quite correct way to do this.

It's important to ask about the steps you are taking to perform your FPS test, since the effects on performance that you are witnessing might not necessarily have a causal relationship with morph loading. Unless you understand what is happening inside the VaM application's code, it cannot be a proper test.

I have spoken with the developer about this issue more than once. According to the developer, it is possible that the overall number of morphs could affect performance if the user has a high number of morphs and a lower performing system, but this might be true for one user and not another since installations and systems differ widely among VaM users. It also is very unlikely to have any noticeable difference resulting from +/- 100 morphs. You would need +/- thousands of morphs to notice a difference in FPS on most systems.

Further, according to the developer, VaM's code still iterates on each morph even with preload off in order to detect whether the morph has been activated by the scene. Therefore, the preload setting makes no difference other than to affect how many morphs are displayed in the UI.

This package fix was discussed with moderators as the least intrusive way to solve this issue.
Pose Tools had over 300,000 downloads before the update. I will not ask Creators to modify their content just because I wanted to rearrange some folders.

Thank you for enjoying my work. I hope this explanation provides some helpful context.

 

[trety]

We're not speaking here about 100 morphs, we're speaking here about ~750 [considering all of Urs revamped packs, no idea how many of them are dupes etc, i just quickly counted morphs in the each package].

300k downloads... and we don't have even 100 people who actively share theirs scenes on hub.
Most of these downloads are either to fill 'morphs collection', or deps.
So someone would think it's just ~ 300 morphs of dupes, what's a big deal.
Yeah, it's not a big deal for vanilla install.
It's a big deal for hoarders.

I must admit there might be something wrong with preload option indeed. I got exact same results in MacGrubber benchmarks with both, preloaded and with disabled morphs, I just thought my PC were acting, but U might be right.
Still, with preload turned off initial atom person would load faster. And it would make morphs tab dupes free and faster too [unity really doesn't like long lists].

I'm not saying i know this software more than dev, ofc i don't.
But Meshed wasn't even awared that having 5k+ vars makes VaM menus really laggy [because of shortcuts].
We got now shortened list of them to fix that.
So he seems to keep rather small installs by himself.

Back in days, when i got interested with that topic [early vars days, a lot of Yours morphs duplicated all over the other creators vars] i had 16k of female morphs - 1600 pages of them.
And in single person default 3 point lights scene it was loosing almost 50 fps in perfomance tab comparing to 'no morphs' install [i was using 10900k cpu back then.
It's hard to tell how much that amount would affect my current rig [13900k] since i'm keeping my numbers below 10k now - and loosing ~25 fps comparing to vanilla.

All of this was just a sugestion, how 'i think it would be made right'.
Now if it's true, and preloading morphs really doesn't completelly disable them [something i would need to test it seems], i would just delete legacy ones and replace them with revamped lol
If creator is active, he would update theirs stuff [seriously it's 2 min of work, to manually edit a scene json, and, with some preparations, u can fix it in all scenes at once]

Personally i won't update these packages anymore, since for personal use i did exactly as above. Kept only revamped morphs, deduped and deleted old ones.
Morphs called by ID will work either way, and it's enough for me to have only one copy of them [even if they're slightly changed compared to initial release ones]
If timeline, in someone's else scene, would throw me an error it can't find some move-up brow expression?
who cares?
More performance in every scene vs sporadical errors in some other people scenes. The choice is obvious for me.

 

[AshAuryn]

We're not speaking here about 100 morphs, we're speaking here about ~750 [considering all of Urs revamped packs, no idea how many of them are dupes etc, i just quickly counted morphs in the each package].

Not all of them are duplicates and it is far less than 700. As I said before, it would take thousands for you to see an FPS drop. Maybe somewhere in the range of 16,000, depending on your hardware. I couldn't begin to guess because there are multiple factors that affect FPS and I am not an expert in the VaM code or in the particular hardware that you are running, its drivers, what other apps you are running concurrently with VaM, etc.

There is nothing wrong with the preload option; it works as intended. You were just incorrect about how it works and what it is for.

I am glad you came to a decision that works for you. We came to a decision that works for the community, so it seems that everyone is satisfied. Cheers!

 

[trety]

Not all of them are duplicates and it is far less than 700. As I said before, it would take thousands for you to see an FPS drop. Maybe somewhere in the range of 16,000, depending on your hardware. I couldn't begin to guess because there are multiple factors that affect FPS and I am not an expert in the VaM code or in the particular hardware that you are running, its drivers, what other apps you are running concurrently with VaM, etc.

There is nothing wrong with the preload option; it works as intended. You were just incorrect about how it works and what it is for.

I am glad you came to a decision that works for you. We came to a decision that works for the community, so it seems that everyone is satisfied. Cheers!

So i gave it a shot in the morning.
Firtsly, moved all my local custom morphs outside default dirs. Then did the same with all morphs packages vars [good thing i organize stuff so it was just one folder to move ]
So here are result with my main install, without morphs:

Then i moved back a few morph packages.
It gave me exactly 4300 custom morphs.
Firstly, with preload option 'on':

As you can see it ate ~ 5 fps average, and increased physics time by about 8%.

Now the fun stuff begins. Exact same morph packages [4300 of morphs], but with disabled preload

Performance from 'vanillish' test is back.

All these tests were made using same PC at the same conditions, during these benchamarks VaM was the only app running, besides of OS and drivers. Then the tests were repeated, giving the same results.

Conclusion: Disabling preload works exactly as i thought it does. It makes VaM remember which morphs are packed inside vars, but it DOES NOT load them on atom persons. Even with low number of morphs [these were just common morphs packages like reloaded, CuteSvetlana, yours experssions and a few smaller packages - which are basically in every single user install already], using pretty much top-tier rig we can notice perfromance drop just from the installed morphs. The differences will be even bigger with lower end CPU.

There is exactly 1528 files [divide by 2, cuz of VaM vmi\vmb morph files = 764 morphs] in only 'female' folders in just these three packages:
AshAuryn.Expressions.5.var
AshAuryn.Pose_Tools.4.var
AshAuryn.Sexpressions.5.var

Old ones [AshAuryn.Expressions.2.var, AshAuryn.Pose_Tools.2.var, AshAuryn.Sexpressions.2.var] contains exactly 880 files [440 morphs].
So we got here 324 duplicates. Which eats up about 1 fps average just for nothing.
Yeah it's not much.
But add there the very same dupes from VaMX for example [author of it just included all of yours legacy expressions, and refused to fix it to refer vars instead]. And we're loosing 2 already just from the expressions.
Just like that.

 

[AshAuryn]

There is exactly 1528 files [divide by 2, cuz of VaM vmi\vmb morph files = 764 morphs] in only 'female' folders in just these three packages:
AshAuryn.Expressions.5.var
AshAuryn.Pose_Tools.4.var
AshAuryn.Sexpressions.5.var

Old ones [AshAuryn.Expressions.2.var, AshAuryn.Pose_Tools.2.var, AshAuryn.Sexpressions.2.var] contains exactly 880 files [440 morphs].
So we got here 324 duplicates. Which eats up about 1 fps average just for nothing.
Yeah it's not much.
But add there the very same dupes from VaMX for example [author of it just included all of yours legacy expressions, and refused to fix it to refer vars instead]. And we're loosing 2 already just from the expressions.
Just like that.

So much of your methods are misleading that it becomes a bit of a pointless exercise to continue this thread. However, just for example, your math to determine the number of duplicates is misleading since you didn't compare actual files but just the total number of files. Some of those packages include new morphs (not duplicates) that are not included in the original package, and at least one of those packages includes presets and jpegs that are not morph files.

In any case, what I am understanding is that you are upset because you, personally, feel that you are receiving a 1 FPS performance drop from a fix designed to solve an issue for hundreds of community scenes shared to thousands of users.

Noted.

 

[trety]

Yeah, i'm seeing the problem in 'fix' that dropped evey single user performance in every single scene, by this 1 fps.
Your's morphs are pretty often considered as 'must haves'. And now they got unecessary duplicates.

Argument: 'i won't broke other people stuff' doesn't buy me at all.
VaM 1.21 broke old versions of some 'must have' plugins.
So theirs authors had to update them, noone blame Meshed for that.

Also i clearly wrote that i considered only 'custom\person\morphs\female' folders inside vars, but i also filtered some preset files [vap and jpg] from there - i didn't mention this, since i thought it's obvious while investigating this issue that closely.
I just found i made some mistake unpacking them at the morning. There is 2046 of files in female folder inside these newest 3 packages. Yeah, I filtered only vmi\vmb files - no male morphs, presets or images.
I have no idea how i got 1528 files before, probably forgot to select one of the folders.
After quickly moving them to a single folder, number goes down to 1238. So there is 808 of duplicated files in there...
Divide by 2 [two files per morph...], and... We clearly got 404 of duplicated morphs.

Also performance drop caused by morphs isn't something ' i felt '.
Benchmarks results i posted above clearly pointing it, even if you're keeping the morphs numbers low, every 1k of them already causing measurable performance loss, even on high-end PC.

But yeah, this discussion is pointless.
You made some packing decissions, i think [and proved in terms of performance] they're wrong. And that's it.

At this point i can just suggest people in here to copy and repack these vars with preload turned off and switch them depending if it's 'creative' session, or just 'play scenes' one. Or do that in package manager inside VaM, and hardreset [if there were any atom persons loaded already in current session], but this is more time consuming than just replace files each 'mode' change.
That's applies to all morph packages. U would be surprised how much u can get in 'play sessions' by just disabling preload

 

[AshAuryn]

If any users have issues with my packages, they should message me directly and I will be happy to help.

If a user does feel that they would prefer not to use one of these legacy packages, I would recommend instead browsing my newer resources since the legacy packages referenced here generally haven't been updated in terms of the quality of the expression morphs in a few years. These legacy packs are not intended to be used in new scenes, but to continue to support scenes created over the last several years. As such, it is important to continue to provide the proper file structure to support scenes that depend on these legacy resources.

Here are some links to a few of my newer works:

Morphs - AshAuryn's Assorted Expressions - Pack 2

39 New Assorted Facial Expression Morphs 74 Eye and Mouth morphs for use in plugins, or to mix and match for over 1300 unique combinations. Anger 7, Anger 8, Annoyed 2, Bored 2, Concentrate, Contempt, Crying 1 Redone, Crying 2 Redone, Crying 3...

hub.virtamate.com

Morphs - AshAuryn's Tears and Pain Expression Morph Pack

15 Crying and Pain Expression Morphs and presets. PLUS 30 eye and Mouth expression morphs to mix and match for endless combinations. Located in the morphs tab under categories AshAuryn/Expressions and AshAuryn/Tools/Expressions NOW INCLUDES...

hub.virtamate.com

Morphs - AshAuryn's Assorted Expression Pack with 75 Morphs

An assortment of 25 unique facial expression morphs. Also includes 25 Eye-only and 25 Mouth-only morphs. Mix and match for endless unique combinations. NOW INCLUDES SCENE! Use a customized UI to try out different expressions. Change genders...

hub.virtamate.com